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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
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      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
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Therighthon

Musk Ox

13 posts in this topic

Alright, I have been putting together a musk ox model, let me know what you guys think. I could maybe try a simpler body, but I find that with thicker animals that makes them look a bit too boxy, which is why I took this route.

MuskOx1.png

 

MuskOx1.MCModel

MuskOx1.png

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I like it.  I like what you did with the body, it's different but I think works well in this case.  I would say, that musk ox are potentially an alternate source of wool, so it'd be good if it were shearable.  It seems like you probably have the texture space.  Although maybe the bodymain box just disappears when sheared, leaving a sleeker look.  That'd save having to do a sheared texture for that box.

 I like the horn design, number of boxes seems good.   I'd just say fine-tune the tips so there's not that corner poking out of the middle section.  If we have to have one poke out somewhere, it'd be better if it were on the underside/inside, where it's less visible.    Also the beard looks more like a jaw I think, being tucked into the body and at the same steep angle as the head.  Might want to change the angle somewhere perhaps.  Unless Bioxx has a special trick for making it dangle?  I know I've seen some models that have portions that act like loose cloth.  I think the head may have issues when it tries to look around, since it's so far into the body.     May want to consider pulling it out a bit and adding some sort of neck or something, so that when it looks right and left most of the head doesn't disappear into the shoulder.  Also did you try a 2-pixel eye.  He kind of looks really surprised, I wonder if maybe 2 pixels would be enough?

 

Edited by Darmo
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Well, it's been a while because I couldn't really figure out what to do with the neck. Here is what I decided on, let me know what you think. Basically, the head is a child of the neck and you can rotate both of them when rotating the head to prevent it from going inside the body, or having the neck stick out through the eyes like in some my other attempts at this. As for shearing, this is what it looks like with the main fur box gone. I like it, but I would like to know what you think and if you want me to add boxes to the tops of the legs. The turned head picture is with 30° angles on both the head and neck boxes, which is about as far as the beard box allows for.

MuskOx2.pngMuskOx2Bald.pngMuskOx2Turned.png

 

MuskOx2Bald.png

MuskOx2.png

MuskOx2.MCModel

 

Edited by Therighthon
Picture in bad place
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That head position seems good.  I can look very far each way and the head stays visible, so I like that.  I think you could make the horn bases larger, so they nearly meet in the middle.  It seems like in most pictures they are very close together.   The neck isn't really doing anything for the head though, it's barely visible at any angle.  I think what you could maybe do with the neck is move it up and make it a ridge just a little bit narrower than the head.  It'll server to emphasize the hump.  A lot of musk ox pictures seem to show a shaggy sort of ridge mane up there. 

So I was looking for pictures of a shaven musk ox and found none.  Turns out you don't shave them.  Musk ox wool is called qiviut.  It's a fine underlayer that is grown every winter, and shed every spring. You either comb out the fibers as they shed, or just collect the clumps that the animal rubs off on stuff. I've attached some pictures of molting musk ox.  It seems like maybe it'd be more appropriate to have some boxes that cap bodymain, bodyshoulder, and bodywool.    So these boxes would be just 1 or 2 pixels larger, and sit a little bit above the body boxes.  They will have transparent textures with lighter long stringy qiviut pieces coming down the sides.  The neck ridge I don't think we'll be able to see the bottom edges, so just make it have a color to match the qiviut boxes.  No need for a cap box for the neck ridge.  Let's just stick with stringy dangling pieces (like the middle photo, with the ox laying down), and not have like, patches hanging around on their own.This will make it so we don't need to worry about upper parts of the legs, fortunately.

If you can only get this once a year, that's much less desireable than a sheep that can be shorn every 24 hrs.    I think we should assume we'll take some liberties with the actual growth pattern, and the player is able to collect it fairly regularly, like the vanilla sheep. 

And, you may want to wait awhile to do these things, in case Bioxx overrules me on how this might work.

Oh, and the nose texture needs some work, but maybe you hadn't gotten to that level of detail yet.

 

Musk_ox_.jpg

muskoxshedding.jpg

summer_muskox.jpg

Edited by Darmo
To attach the pictures I said I would.
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Agreed with Darmo on all accounts.

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Okay, I have made some changes, not sure if the neck is what you were suggesting or if you want it higher and thicker.

MuskOxQiviut.pngMuskOx.png

MuskOx.png

MuskOxQiviut.png

MuskOx.MCModel

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Ok, finally got computer back online.  As far as the qiviut texture, I was thinking more along the lines of the middle photo above - the one with a lot of qiviut on the back, hanging down in strings.  For a couple reasons. 

MuskOx&Qiuvut.jpg

One, having a patchy back leaves floating edges as shown in the picture above.  This is ok with things like the camel blanket, where it's actually a distinct material from the animal.  But I think for the musk ox, it's better to not have a bunch of exposed floating edges on the top surface, that highlight the separation.  So I think if the top surface were mostly qiviut, that would be good. 

I think the dangling strings of qiviut are the main thing to focus on, for the sides.  The free-floating patches just kind of look odd, like splatters of dirt or something.  We really don't have the fine texture needed to depict them well I think.  So let's just get rid of the floating patches on the sides, and go for hanging strings.  They read better, imho. 

As for the neck, I was thinking something like below:

MuskOxNeck.jpg

A lot of the musk ox pictures, their neck fur seems to form a ridge somewhat like that.  But that's just a suggestion.  What you've got for a neck does work.  

I see you moved the horn bases closer together, which helps, but I do think they'd look better larger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Alright, I widened the horns' bases, and re-angled them a little bit, as well as bumping up the neck and fixing the qiviut layer.
MuskOx3NQ.pngMuskOx3.png

MuskOx.png

MuskOxQiviut.png

MuskOx.MCModel

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Good, good, Ii like what you did with the horns there.  Qiviut coverage might be a little much now, I think it'd be better if it were stringier.  Like the middle photo above.  And maybe use some color to give an impression of stringiness even when you're up above the bottom edge.  Right now it looks rather uniform, like he was dipped in butterscotch.  Also maybe add a little bit to the back of the head, so the transition is not so abrupt.

 

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Alright, seems to look a little less like it was dipped in butterscotch now.

Screenshot_10.png

MuskOxQiviut.png

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Definitely better.  I think it would benefit from a more consistent color strategy with regards to the stringy bits.  In the following image, I've circled a couple areas.

Screenshot_10Circ.jpg

The green circle is where you have a couple longer strands being light, and the 'shorter' area between, which does not descend as far, is darker.  This helps it recede, making the longer stringier parts appear to be in the foreground, and emphasizing that you're trying to portray long strands of matted hair, rather than a uniform area of short fur or hide.

The red circled area has the opposite occurring though; a darker strand surrounded by shorter, lighter areas.  I think it's not as good an effect.

I think having the longer strands be lighter, and thus in the foreground, is better, and it would be good if this there were a consistent order to this for all the strands, with the longer being lighter, and the shorter darker.  I think this would strengthen the impression of matted strands of fur.

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Looks like I missed responding to this back when I was first starting my move in July, sorry about that!  It looks good to me.

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