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Draco18s
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Everything posted by Draco18s
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I don't mind discovering stuff, but the enjoyable part of discovery is sharing it with people who aren't interested in working out for themselves. I guess I'm spoiled or something, whereby the wiki of information is entirely disseminated through players, that is, the dev doesn't put up any information, not because they don't want it there, but because they don't have the time to maintain it. I contribute to an informative database. There are things that are already known, and that's cool, but when I find something I can share...that, THAT is what's really awesome. It's not so much that I want it all bared before me, but that I can find places where the information is lacking and fill in the gaps. Speaking of, 90% of the metals pages have hidden red links. For instance, in Red Steel, there are little icons for the recipe, but some of them are not valid. "Unshaped Rose Gold" is fine, "Unshaped Black Steel" is not (some metals use "[metal] Ingot" some use "unshaped [metal]" and a coupel use just "[metal]"--Bismuth, as an exampe--and still others don't even exist, such as "unshaped wrought iron" which despite appearing as an image, does not have a page, including an actual Red Link on Unshaped Black Steel, and doesn't actually exist in the game as far as I can tell, as the crafting progression is Unshaped Pig Iron -> Pig Iron Ingot -> Wrought Iron Ingot). That said, I do go to the wiki for help, as if I get stuck I go to see if someone else knows the answer. And if it's not there, then I come to the forums and bitch. Awkward sentence, not entirely clear on the meaning here.
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Ha, of course.
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Curious. I decided to reduce the problem to the number of base input metals (ingots) and found out that you are...partially correct? 1 red steel bar takes 0.75 pig iron ingots to make.* 1 steel bar takes 1 pig iron igot to make. But that leaves out the 2 nickle, 5 copper, 0.5 silver, 3.25 gold, and 1 zinc required. Not to mention the extra time spent in the anvil GUI. That's a huge investment of time and ancilary materials to save on a little iron. Although if red steel is twice as durable, there you go then. *w indicates worked, as an ingot rather than as a weak bar, (w) indicates how many times the anvil is used 4RSw = BS + S + RG + Br + BSw + (w) 4BSw = 2S + N + BB + PIw + (w) 4BS = 2S + N + BB 4S = 3WI + PI WI = PIw + (w) PIw = PI + (w) 4RSw = BS + S + RG + Br + BSw + (w) 16RSw = 4BS + 4S + 4Br + 4BSw + 4(w) 16RSw = 8S + 2N + 2BB + 4RG + 4Br + 4PIw + 8(w) 16RSw = 6WI + 2PI + 2N + 2BB + 4RG + 4Br + 4PIw + 8(w) 16RSw = 10PIw + 2PI + 2N + 2BB + 4RG + 4Br + 14(w) 16RSw = 12PI + 2N + 2BB + 4RG + 4Br + 24(w) 4RSw = 3PI + 0.5N + 0.5BB + RG + Br + 6(w) 4 each of Black Bronze, Rose Gold, and Brass total 4 gold, 6 copper, 1 zinc, and a silver. 4Sw = 3WI + PI + (w) 4Sw = 3PIw + PI + (w) 4Sw = 4PI + 4(w) (Edit: slight mistake in the (w) calculation)
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My point is that I shouldn't have to resort to Google to determine the benefit of tools made out of one material vs. another, or which type of stone a particular ore or mineral appears in (I'm not asking for Y depth, I'm asking for stone type so I know where to look for when I'm looking to strip mine). I'm on the fence about details of the Anvil GUI (such as that button X is worth N pixels of progress left or right). It doesn't offer a solution to smithing (or say what the goal value is, or list the rules for various tools), but it allows easily obtainable information to be cleanly presented, such that those of us who like running the numbers* can do so without worrying about material loss. I've got the values for the green buttons, just need to grab the reds. I can see the argument for "no numbers" but it also doesn't actually give anything away. It doesn't say "here's the best way to make a pickaxe" but allows someone to figure it out for themselves easily. *I've been doing mathy stuff for Firefall's crafting system recently. I discoverd that it's a lot less complex than it looks like on the surface, but offers a greater depth than first apparent as well. Although a recent patch has altered the formua for resource blending to be more complex than the last math that was determined, in an attemp to "discourage rare resource gathering." I don't think it's succeeded at it's goal, because there are no rare isotopes available in the world. Every resource node is the same isotope as every other node, and every monster drops that isotope as well.
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Ahem: Just over here I found a discussion on the durability and material costs of Red Steel vs. Normal Steel. If I had looked at the wiki I would not have known, even in a vauge sense, that Red Steel has twice the durability of Steel (but is less material efficient). (Oh, and another tidbit that could go on the wiki: nuggets of ore--both sizes--do not evenly divide into bars. It's slightly less than 4 "normal ores" to make a bar, and either 15 or just slightly less than 15* "small nuggets" to make a bar. I'm not worried about exact numbers but information like "there will be overflow, so put in another mold" needs to be added to the wiki.) *I say "slightly less" as I didn't check for overflow when I found out that it took 15 not 16 to make a bar.
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The problem is that I'm forced to use the wiki for TFC, because it's crafting system is so detailed and obtuse. I was trying to forge a copper anvil last night and after getting two bars to Red Hot**** and into the anvil GUI, the "weld" button still didn't work. So I checked the wiki and found that all welds require flux. That's not discovery. That's an excersize in frustration. By hiding information and not puting it on the wiki to "encourage exploration" all you do is frustrate people. For example, what if you "hid" information on what stones are viable flux materials? What about hiding the information on what heat level different metals are workable at? That's my point: either have all information, or have none. If a piece of information is discoverable, it's going to show up on the internet somewhere. If it shows up somewhere, why not have it all show up in one place? Except that TFC is even more hyperlinear than Vanilla. T0 materials get you T1 materials get you T2 materials...all the way up to T6. Advancing from T(n) materials to T(n+1) requires 12 bars of T(n+1) to make an anvil, then 1 additional bar per tool. Every tool has the same requirements to make (the "rules" section) although some actions are more efficient. Which, while I could discover the optimal hit pattern myself, I don't have the wealth of materials to experiment (which means that the next time I sit down with a bar of zinc, I'm going to start counting pixels and arrive at the solution mathematically on paper). Charcoal is gained in exactly 1 manner. All materials T1 and up are refined in the same manner (bloomery). All food comes from 1 source: pigs or cows (as crops take days of real time to grow and unfeasably difficult to maintain). Or fishing, which I hear is not actually infinite, but I don't feel like spending my time fishing. I'm already sitting around waiting for things to happen (charcoal, sluices, crops...) All T0 materials are gained via sluicing (or as I have discovered, picking up small stones is faster even though I am told It Should Not Be). Due to mineral scarcity, you have even fewer choices about what to make. My first zinc tool was a pick axe so that I could do anything with regards to digging. Then a chisel so I could make a bloomery. Now a hammer so I can smash this limestone I have into flux (FYI: borax disolves in water, I don't see why it should completely use a stone hammer and chalk is so soft it is crushable with your hands). So I get to spend not 4, not 6, but 10 hours doing nothing but collecting gravel and dumping it into a sluice. That does not sound like "flexible" progression to me.
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That's about as ridiculous as not putting the info about UU-Matter crafting on the IndustrialCraft wiki. :
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There might be more in that area, I just found two small pockets and didn't dig into the stone surrounding it looking for more, as I have no way to melt the copper yet.
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The discussion started with: Kill deer Deer drops wool "Wow, the developer is an idiot." (Actual post, "is that going to change? probably right? because its not really realistic...") Developer says, "actually it was an accident." I hopped in to point out that it's not that unreasonable. Maybe it wasn't intentional, but it's not unreasonable. And now I'm being accused of a non-sequiter.
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I stumbled into copper by sheer accident before I even had enough zinc for one tool. I was wandering around trying to find clay and while walking through a jungle to get back home I fell into a pit with some pigs and there was copper in the wall. Came back later after I had a pick and there was 24 units of the stuff (now that I think about it, I'm just shy of an anvil, aren't I?).
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Sigh. That's not what I mean at all. Look at it this way: Kill deer Deer drops wool Think "oh, deer hides aren't implemented yet, well, wool fills a similar role" Move on
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It may be classified as a bug, but my point is: it's not that illogical. Yes, hides aren't wool. But a deer hide is used for many of the same things as wool is used for.
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Posted.
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So I'm still in the stone age (having a little trouble with the "tap a hammer on a rock to get your first anvil GUI" as it isn't working as expected) but it occurred to me late last night that.... I can carry around 144 logs without being encumbered. I can build a chest to store 36 in a single tile Or I can stack them in a wood pile and fit 16 And this felt backwards.
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How about any information on how to use raw, unmined stone, as an anvil someplace outside of a quickstart guide? In, oh, any page on hammers, anvils, or forging. Sluicing could also use a boost in effective information conveying, if it included information like "you have to place it while facing the direction of flow" in text as well as helpful hints on effective placement in the world (the "ore scanning" text is not clear as to what that actually means, on both this page and the gold pan page; when I first read it I thought it had something to do with the prospecting pick). Borax (and other flux stones) need to be updated with better information on how to locate these minerals, as it does not appear that borax is a block type, but that it has a chance to drop when two other minerals are mined (one of which is also not a block type! That would be gypsum, which has even less information on its page than borax). Any information at all on growing crops: - A redirect page from "Food" to a relevant page, also one from "Crops" - "There are three nutrient groups, A B and C" with no information on what classifies these groups and how to alter a farm tile to have a given nutrient level or how to determine what nutrient level is present in a given block, prior to planting - How long it takes crops to grow - Seasons? I've seen reference to there being seasons on the forums, no hard information - A freaking "how to farm" guide. I poked around with farming the other day and determined only that I can't keep plants alive, with no ability to determine why they died.
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Deerskin blanets. And having actually been able to FEEL a real reindeer hide, they aren't joking when they say it is the softest and most comfortable thing you will ever own. If you ever had the impulse to press your face into a sheep, try reindeer. Ten times better. So no, I don't have an issue with deer dropping wool.
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Honestly? Try uninstalling Java 7 and reinstalling Java 6. http://www.java.com/en/download/manual_v6.jsp I've had issues with Java 7 mucking up stuff (things will run fine until Java decides for whatever reason that the program is performing an illegal action, which is perfectly permissible and throw errors left and right).
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I have no issue with that. Back packs, mules, carts. All good. WELL HEY. How about that. That's what I get for going "I know how to make chests" and not consulting the wiki (when the wiki fails to mention things like "how to make your first metal tool" in sufficient any detail outside of a quickstart guide, and even inside the guide it's sketchy. Hint: raw stone as an improvised anvil is mentioned no where in the pags for hammers, metal, anvil, tools, forging, or stone).
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Actually what I'd like to see is the player inventory reduced to the hot bar + 9. That is, only one extra row, not the three we have. As much as I like to run around carrying five tools, a crafting table, three stacks of wood, 2 kinds of seeds, four piles of dirt, three stacks of ore, two turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree...it bothers me that I can when there's a strict enforcement on the finicky details of metal working. As for chest vs. log pile I recognize that log piles take no resources to make (so a balance thing to consider) whereas a chest is fairly resource intensive.* So I could be fairly easily convinced to leave those two alone. Maybe doubling the log pile capacity (holding 32) which would make it attractive to moderate amounts of wood, leaving chests for other items (a chest could still hold 108, at the cost of 8 if you were short on volumetric space). That'd make log piles 30% as space efficient as a chest, which is reasonable given the material cost of the chest. *Off the cuff math: a tree drops 1, 2? log per log-block. Each of these makes 4 whatever-they're-called, which in turn makes 1 plank-block, and 8 of those make a chest. Wow, whole trees go into making chests.
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You missed my point. I'm not asking for realism. I'm asking for believability. Right now I can't suspend my disbelief enough in order to properly enjoy the game. I don't know why a pile of logs fits only 16 when I can shove them into an unorganized chest and still have room for another 7 different items. And if we were so focused on gameplay over realism, would we have knapping? Knapping is great...the first time. After the fifth time it becomes tedius and an impediment to fun. You don't want to learn about logging, but metallurgy is fair game?
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So max inventory capacity: 432 Single chest: 108 Single log pile: 16 And this does not seem weird? A log pile has the exact same "world volume" as a chest. (Keep in mind that I've played Unreal World where 3 logs are sufficient to encumber you into being unable to move and live on a farm where a six foot section of a single tree requries two people to move) I know the mod isn't trying to be realistic but there is some level of believability that needs to be maintained. In vanilla minecraft I accept that a chest has the same storage capacity as my inventory beacuse it falls on the same, rough, world scale (a player takes up 2 blocks, a chest takes up 1 and holds a little less, but doesn't have to deal with all that bothersome meat). So when a mod reduces a chest's capacity and doesn't reduce the player's backpack, things get weird. Follow that up with other container objects that hold very specific items holding less than a generic hold-everything chest, and it gets even weirder.
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Stacks of 4 was how I estimated how many I could carry myself. XD I forgot they stacked higher there (goes to what, 16?)
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Neat. Part of the agriculture thing should be seed stacking. It may have been Just My Luck to pick up seven different kinds of seeds, but I honestly haven't seen seeds stack at all. I have, of course, tried planting them, but I have a black thumb, apparently. Nope it's 16. I made several last night. 4 logs in each of 4 inventory slots.