Tsuarok

Okay, I'll wait and see.

So, I posted this idea in another thread, but it was a poll, not a suggestion thread, so I thought I'd repost it here. I understand that the scribing table is going away, and that the recipes will simply become a part of the anvil UI. This is probably a good thing, since the scribing table added very little to the game. I suggest though, that instead of removing it, it becomes modified in the following way: Have the plans integrated as per the change within the forge, but have them be locked. The scribing table will be there to unlock them. The method of unlocking would be as follows: Spend xp (or preferably a new form of xp gained from anvil work, mining, smelting, and/or alloy mixing) to unlock moves in some sort of logic based minigame. Upon successful completion of the game, you unlock a new recipe. It would be preferable to be able to work towards a certain recipe, rather than have one chosen at random. This would allow, for example you to progress through a piece of armor one step at a time, gaining first the recipes for the unfinished pieces, and finally the finished product. I'm not quite sure what the structure of the minigame should be. Mastermind comes to mind, but it's a bit too algorithmic for what I'm thinking. I'm definitely open to suggestion here. Well, and everywhere really. Let me know what you think. -Tsuarok

Awesome, ty Paolo! I've been trying to decode the detailed block tags so I hadn't started looking into these; and now I don't have to!

I've been doing some work with MCEdit. It doesn't really warrant a special tutorial, it just works, but I talk a little bit about it (and World Painter)here.

I was inspired by the custom recipe UI that Custom NPCs has. It is basically a crafting grid where, if you have admin. privileges, you can simply throw the items into the crafting grid, throw your desired output into the output slot, and save. Then, whenever you put those items into the grid you get your user defined produce. That's really it. (BTW, they have shuriken). This is a great system for vanilla, but for TFC, the crafting grid for many items simply doesn't make sense and worse, cuts TFC out of the picture. So that's why I suggested this feature. I picture a menu with a scribing table interface and an output that accepts any non-TFC item. You'd just stick your item in and scribe in the desired recipe, and it will create a smithing plan for you. Obviously it would need to check that no other plan used the same pattern (in the custom npcs interface it doesn't, it just ignores the custom recipe). Alloys would probably be more difficult, as there are many things that can't be placed in the crucible. But I imagine that it could be done by adding some type of allowCrucible class and changing the code to accept it. The UI would then just let you stick in your desired ratios and select the product.

To increase compatibility with other mods, I think it would be cool to add in a UI for creative mode that would allow people to add in custom alloy (preferably with any item, not just metals) and smithing blueprint recipies. Say, for example, I'm trying to add in Thaumcraft, and I want thaumium. I could make it, for the server, an alloy of blue steel and one of each shard. I could then add in a blueprint for wand caps and make thaumium wand caps. This would allow a much better control than the current dependence on custom NPCs mod to sell/give you the items, and integrate the amazing systems you guys have created into the progression of other mods, making the experience more seamless.

Awesome, ty Rhapsodyman, I'll try it out. Though I do use ML, so maybe I'll try and work something out with it first. @Dunk Great, ty! It will take me a bit of time to compile the data I'm gathering, expect a message in about a week.

But metallurgy is not the only thing you have. You have fruit trees and tons of crops and new mobs and you're adding horses into the mix soon(ish). Now is the time to be talking about these considerations, even if they won't be implemented soon.

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say; balance it to reward specialization, but allow for generalization to still be viable. So the generalist should be able to grow enough food for themselves, and mine some, but the miner should be able to mine a LOT more but be unable to support her food needs. Maybe as the player progresses and gains access to higher tier implements, these limitations could be eased. Or maybe more pronounced... not sure which would be better. It will probably be tricky to balance out, but I think the results would be worth it.

Well... idk, i have it installed, and it works fine. I think of TFC as a much more rewarding version of vanilla survival, and other mods can enhance this. One problem with other mods is that they can take away the added challenge that makes TFC so rewarding, since they are balanced to vanilla, not TFC. The other problem is that many of the materials that other mods add are ores and such found in materials that TFC removes. I think this suggestion goes a long way to addressing both of these problems. It allows a new way of getting the materials that don't spawn, while allowing control of when the new materials are introduced within the TFC progression. This keeps mod abilities from allowing players to bypass TFC progression by gaining early access to powerful mod items, and adds a sort of seamlessness that prevents TFC systems from becoming obsolete when the player has progressed past them. Custom maps made with world painter or similar programs complete the integration, allowing precise control over the locations and prevalence of added materials. I understand that TFC is a work in progress, and that some systems will continue to be fleshed out, but as it is, after you get blue steel there is very little to keep players in the game. You may notice that server populations tend to crash after a certain period, when most players have gotten everything that they'd wanted. Supporting other mods allow a near infinite addition of complexity and progression, keeping the game interesting far longer than could otherwise occur. I understand your point about not sacrificing gameplay for compatibility, but I'm not suggesting that. You notice that I don't say, "change stone back to vanilla stone to support other mods." I suggest a new way to use the superior systems of TFC in a way that can integrate other mods. They absolutely should not limit themselves for compatibility, but they should take the extra time to go back and implement customization options to allow for compatibility within their new systems.

Compatibility is listed as a development goal, and is one of the more important things a mod developer can strive for. Having a mod work seamlessly with other mods allows people to play the way they want to, and increases exposure as people add the mods to modpacks and servers. If Vanilla survival minecraft wasn't modable, I wouldn't be playing minecraft anymore. "Survival as it should have been" should definitely include one of the few things vanilla did right. What's fun for you might not be fun for everyone, and I know that thaumcraft TFC would be amazing for many people. Having mods be compatible increases your options far beyond what one development team could ever be capable of. Some of those options will be so-so, but some will be great. You get more fun features. Period. The goal should obviously be to make the system fun and robust, but taking the extra time to support compatibility pays off 10 fold. Also, optifine works perfectly well in TFC.

Okay, I can get behind that form of herbalism. Like coffee for a mild haste effect, etc. As far as the farming, you'd need to make it so that it requires quite a bit of management just to feed yourself, but that with better tools (maybe a horse drawn plow?) you could produce much more than you need. That way you get a sort of economy where smiths and miners can't actually produce enough food to eat, and farmers need their metal tools to farm. Some sort of exponential system where specialization gives a much higher payoff, but where generalization is still viable but extremely slow. So a plow might require 32 double ingots (you need a full time miner/smith), but it allows you to produce 8 times more food or something. But if you want to, you can divide your time between farming and mining and still get by. Maybe miners would need something like a ton of leather to make something like the prospector's pick, and the herder would need a ton of food to feed the animals to produce the leather. And maybe the farmer needs a ton of bone meal and rotten flesh, making the adventurer required. Preferably, there would be several such systems in place to make a tiered progression. If you didn't do this, if you made it so that full time miners could get by by just planting a larger farm and forgetting about it, there would be little reason to invest your time into producing more than you needed, which would make the whole system pointless.

Awesome, ty! I'll test these out right away. BTW, would you happen have time to explain how the detailed block id/data tag/nbt system determines shape and texture? I'm trying to make a filter for MCEdit that can take block structures and make scale models with detailed blocks, but I can't seem to figure out the system.

wow that's a lot of numbers without explanations. ...youtube ... help ... me

So... not really sure if this is the best place to post this... but I do need support, so: How do chiseled blocks work? From my tests using NEI and MCEdit, it seems to be it's own block with a texture plastered on it. But how exactly does it know which texture and which shape? As in, where can I find the numbers that determine each shape and texture? I'm trying to write an MCEdit filter that can take a shape built from normal blocks and turn it into a scale model in chiseled blocks, with some options as to scale and material. But until I understand this system, I can't do it. Thanks for any help you can provide. -Tsuarok

really? I haven't tried out world edit, I thought it was incompatible with forge... how did you get it to work?

Thanks Kittychanley. Guess I'll download NBTExplorer and see if I can find something. At least I know where to look

Good stuff. Especially the snow drifts bit.

Just to demonstrate what you can do in MCEdit, a little screenshot. I only made one of the arches in game. Obviously, it's not a huge structure or anything, but it shows the kind of time-savings you can get using the program. You can also see a tiny portion of the land I cleared.

I really don't understand the people who are saying that the suggestions are premature. While it's true that TFC is a WIP and is rightfully starting with metallurgy/mining, it is never too early to start nudging the future direction of the mod in a way you might find enjoyable. After all, farming, animal husbandry, etc, HAVE been fleshed out somewhat already, and if you don't get your ideas out there, the soon to be implemented systems could lock out your ideas. Anyway, They are all good ideas, though I'm not too sure weeding should be implemented. Realistic, yes, but seriously boring. It is a game first. The hunting and especially tracking and trapping ideas are great. Not so sure about the herbalism. Either it would be magic, or it would require diseases to treat and such, which I don't think they want to implement. I could see maybe antidotes for poisonous mobs and maybe poisoned arrows or something.

This is an amazing idea, though I do have one caveat. I believe colored glass was made by doping the glass with small amounts of metals, for example, gold for red, cobalt for blue, etc. I'd prefer something like this over dyes. But that's kinda beside the point; I love the idea of a more realistic (and delayed) glass crafting system, and the stained glass idea is simply incredible.

okay, I've gotten World Painter to work, though with some caveats. 1)The water level seems to really want to be set at 144. I was able to load a world with a lower level, but it crashed shortly after loading (presumably a tidal wave was heading my way). 2)No Caves Everywhere or Chasms Everwhere options, the world seems to simply crash before ever loading, and I have to reinstall TFC. 3)Check the box "Let mincraft populate terrain" to stick in ores and such. You should be able to be selective about this by using the populate layer, though I didn't try. 4)Check the extended block IDs in the edit menu. Look up the IDs ingame with NEI or F3+h. I may compile a list when I finish cataloging all the blocks. 5)You have to set up the stone layers manually using several Underground Pockets layers set to 100%. Combined layers is your friend. 6)It seems that TFC may put caves in but that World Painter fills them up with whatever you selected as your underground material. I'll test this out by selecting air and get back to you. 7)TFC acknowledges your biome selections, but utterly ignores them for the sake of spawning trees, etc. 8)WP puts your map at the origin. TFC puts you a few kilometers away. You'll need to teleport, and unless you make a truly enormous map, your map will be entirely in the tropics. 9)TFC spawns surface rock that have absolutely no bearing on the custom terrain rock. 10) I didn't see any animals. You may want to spawn in a few. 11)When you first load up your world, everything takes forever to update as the dirt falls and the ore and such spawn in. It would probably be nice to fly around the whole map to populate it before you release it. 12)I didn't try and use the tree population layers, as I think they'd only spawn vanilla trees. I'll put in more stuff as I find it. If anyone would like to help me catalog the various rocks, dirt, and sand, I'd really appreciate it. Look for new dirt and sand types, check what rocks they spawn on, and send me the ids. So far I have Phyllite, Rhyolite, Siltstone, Dacite, and Gabbro, as well as their respective dirts. I only have the sand for Rhyolite. When I'm done, I'll complile a list for people to use.

I've been unable to get WP to work directly, but with a little bit of patience (or a lot, depending on your map), MCEdit schematics can transfer your landscape in.

To sort of develop this further, I'd like to see the scribing table changed to something like the research table in Thaumcraft. Where instead of looking up plans on the wiki you have to spend resources (maybe regular experience, or preferably some new type of experience you get from working at the anvil) and maybe do some type of minigame, unlocking a selection button in the anvil interface which would allow you to craft that particular item. I'd also like to see something similar with alloys, though that would obviously be much harder to work into the current system.

I think that the nether should be made stable with TFC for no other reason than compatibility with other mods. That said, I'd be okay with changing the entrance mechanic if they wanted to. But whatever is done, make it so that going there doesn't corrupt worlds. And what transcengopher sort of said. Well... if you look at the biome (F3) in the nether, it is actually Hell... But yeah, you can interpret it any way you like.