starXephir

You really need to be following the Dev's twitters to know how progress is going. It would be great if there was a twitter watch or twitter links on the website somewhere.

Flat bread comes across as an add-on. A fix for the current early game.

If the updated and balanced with foraging, it should be 'easy enough' to get food. Flat bread would diminish a reason to develop foraging. Giving the player access to an almost universally present food source would almost trivialise that major part of the early game. Which you seem to have had plenty of awful run-ins with . I also don't see the point in making the player work so hard for a bad food stuff. By the time you've finished making your flat bread you'd be either gaining nearly nothing; Or flat bread is made semi-good, and if made in a batch, rather effective. Too effective for something you have so much excess of.

Starting out, even in a well developed server. If foraging is implemented correctly. You could set up near a forest and gather roots and mushrooms. Giving you a way of surviving when all the initial generation food sources are gone. Without removing the fear of starvation. Combine this with a river or beach, it should be easy enough to maintain your hunger. I find squid to be an excellent food source, even if calamari is a little ineffective. A great thing about foraging is that it is process-less. Maintaining gameflow similar to the current game.

If, what I would call, perfectly executed. The player would  forage while collecting rocks and gathering logs. Enough food to survive the first night and 2nd day by itself. Giving the player time to explore for new foraging and fishing locations. From there they can settle down, start a farm, rotate through food locations, and start building up slowly. Should the player get unlucky or spend their time ineffectively. Then they should start to stave and worry about food acquirement.

A side note about fishing:

Killing spiders is really easy in the game mornings. Hunt them down as soon as possible. Use thatch as defences. Between fishing and spiders you get plenty of EXP with little danger, as well as some food. Though it may take a couple of days to get a fishing rod. Once you have a rod, fish and calamari work good enough.

what about like one of those spit things

Use a good quality log in your firepit with a bellows.

Cooking is still pretty slow if that set up.

Now the problem with with your suggestion*, and the idea of balancing it with the wood costs. That's what a Forge already is. You make a bonfire. Cover it up. Take the charcoal (not 1:1 from wood right?). Slap it in a hole made of cobble stones (you can get stones off the ground). Light it up. Presto, cook 5 meats.

Edit: *Using a bonfire/spit to cook things faster.

Adding sticks is an unnecessary detail. You don't need oars for a boat. Block Man is an EXCELLENT paddler. Making it handle like a Drunk or Slow is fair enough... It's really just a low-quality boat. Again most players would never ever need one. It would really be there for vanity and accessibility's sake.

Well wood working with Adze-like tools was pretty common throughout the ancient world. I feel like Aborigines got a bad roll like in a Civilization game . On one hand they got sweet early-game boats, but Australia is so isolated, and has so much land.

The problem with that Allen comes into resource grind. Something I don't like too much about most "tech" mods. Resource grind and 'tier' advancement. Mostly in self-serving mods like IC2 (Oh look, I spent forever getting stuff, now I can get anything from nothing, but I no longer need anything!). OH you need to make This machine, with That much power, then squeeze 20 McGibbons into MicroMcGibbons to squeeze into McGibbon Crystals! Then you can make That Power Gen 2.0 so you can start using That Machine 2, but WAIT now you need two stacks of iron! Maybe I'm too critical. I just hate on IC2 because I think it is poorly designed. Mostly the foundation, and how it ignores almost everything in the base game.

Making whole axles out of Iron for a 'horsewheel' will just bring complaints. Many people will throwing to "real life" examples just using wood. A large log can carry a lot of power. I mean, A LOT. If the horse was to break out into sprint (or get caught in a tornado), other pieces of the mechanism would break before the shaft. That would put much too stress on a wooden shaft. Putting resource limits, using metal bushes would be kinder to gameplay. Saves of materials a little. Only the part that actually does any work (where parts contact) is required to be made of the limiting resource. It would give the whole mechanical power system a real medieval feel. To keep the game world grounded despite having access to cool machines like steam engines. If we ever had a reason to need high Force through a shaft, sure give the player a slap on the resource wrist. It's probably worth it. Grinding corn? Not worth it.

Also I suppose larger wooden parts may have "inertial" losses. Once it gets spinning it transfers power just fine, and then has to wind-down. Metal parts no observable inertia effects. Giving them additional benefit for the resource cost.

@413Crossram, Kazahied: Simple is always best. Which is why I suggested the Health system through buff effects. Definitely agree on keeping away from serious injuries. As far as gameplay goes, being in a cast may as well be death. Not because of player restrictions, but if something can put you in a cast, it could kill you too. If that thing is a monster, it is more likely the player would die, rather than crawl to safety, and go through months of medical attention.

@Kazahied; Sickness/Diseases could be pretty interesting as it's own branch of medicine. If the Devs decide medicine is pretty important in the vein of TFC. Sickness & Disease could require a semi-deep system of diagnosis and cure creation. One of the things I loved about Space Station 13 (if it's never really used) was the the virology system. Cobbling together some effects. Depending on the effects you can use some period appropriate remedies, targeted to the effect. Effects from the disease are arranged in a hierarchy. Using a treatment for the topmost effect fights the disease best. Using a remedy made of multiple things (only those targeting the disease) has a compounding effect. Seems pretty simple, but there may be a need to use a lot of the chat for telling you that your character has a sore throat, etc etc.

@Moress, Experience should give you additional hardiness. A resistance to getting wounds and whatnot. Making staying alive MORE VALUABLE, opposed to penalising death further. Technically that does make death a heavier penalty too.

@AllenWL, come on, making us spawn far away is just a pain. Spawning at home is only statistically beneficial if you DIED at home. Beds as a spawn point is the best thing going for them (and the only thing the straw bed will do). Not sure about making injuries carry beyond death, could be worth a playtest. Starting over fresh is probably best. Given that you died, it is likely that you accumulated some new wounds. If you died early game and have no medicinal knowledge, all these wounds would pile up and up and up until the game is unplayable or someone bails you out.

Mental instability could come in as hallucinations. Be it sounds, or illusionary creatures. Mental Instability would not necessarily be a (visible) meter, or have a value attached to it. Please not like a PS2 era horror games. Maybe too much time in darkness or confined spaces. "Mining Madness"? Makes civilization important from an extra angle. Not measurable by statistics or progress. More atmosphere in TFC! Make those shivering early nights more spooky. Could also lend a hand to our take on spawning systems.

Plot twist! That 5 year old is a Demon Zombie version of Benjamin Button and has unfortunately unaged into nothing.

I pull Corki's pin.

Pretty sure any grain worked for me. I'll boot up and give it a shot soon too.

Edit: All the grains worked for baiting a cow. I didn't go so far as to test all the animals because the cow took a while to take notice of the grain. I should have spawned them all at once .

  Must be whatever is set as a breeding item, I guess.

It appears someone has hexed my portal into this forum.

A quick nod and a wink from Lee's Rapid Deconstruction teaches that Stone Giant what's what. Tartarus is one hell hole you'd never catch this guy in.

Charcoal filters would help anyone looking to produce a more pure moon shine.

Skyblock can be so much fun. TFC may not be the best platform. Anyway, here goes!

Thatch is the primary renewable building block in TFC. Giving the player some cereal seeds and water would allow them to make infinite thatch over time and build outwards. Kind of like Cobble Generators but slooooooow. How you handle water would be a big part of the game too. Whether it's an infinite spring + red steal bucket, or just a single source block, will have a major effect on the gameplay.

Seeing that you can't make stone renewable you would have a maximal limit to the amount of tools you could possibly make... This could be a good hard limit that gives gives the player something of a 'stone clock' that will end their map. Breaking the usual Skyblock rules and having a number pre-built orbs of stone in the sky could give players a goal and access to more stone. Some could come with resources inside, making searing for materials above copper possible. A custom map generation could do something similar. You may need to shamelessly steal idea's from Ex Nihilio and apply them to TFC. EN revolves mostly about making everything from renewable materials... TFC sadly does not have as many of those as vanilla.

Aside from some copper the player would also need a source of wood or two. Maybe a charcoal wood like willow, and a long burning wood of choice. In vanilla sky block it's not so bad. Get a mob spawner/platform going and you have bonemeal for days... TFC trees take a long time to grow. Not sure if animals still spawn in TFC, but my first move would be to get far enough away from the main dirt island to have animals spawn there. Seems like the best food source to me. Having a bed would let you get trees grown in a realistic time.

Your mod idea seems hard to place into the game. The imagery sounds nice though.

Edit: Some of the things you say they player would not have, are usually placed in a chest for regular Skyblock. Otherwise they really is no way or reason to play. Getting TFC working with MCEdit or single player commands (that's the one that lets you delete blocks in entire chunks right?) would let you make a suitable map.

>You have the Orb of Zot.

By the gods. How will I every escape from THIS dungeon of madness.

I feel foraging is the main suggestion here. Like how Natura adds berry bushes for early-game food sources. Small berry bushes could appear in the wild, and roots or mushrooms could spring up at the base of trees during or after it rains. Really it would be like an extension to fruit trees. Providing a source of food with little player management. Only year-round and instantly accessible. It would be an appropriate inclusion. Given early game Hunter/Gatherer is a bit light on when it comes to gathering foods. That's not a bad thing though! Forces the player to progress into agriculture.

Grass is too prevalent to be a food source... You wouldn't need to hunt or forage, just mow some more grass.

Also I like the Mortar and Pestle relating to TFC in general. Herbarys, medicines, advanced foods (spices or salt dressings), a lot of things are possible.

nerve damage would just make the player not react to any pain he/she may experience to that area/appendage. Which I suppose would be a somewhat interesting mechanic but I don't see it being all the practical and wouldn't mind if that particular instance of realism isn't implemented to burns.

 

Also die and respawn isn't the answer to any of these ailments considering you receive improved health when you level, so you can choose to respawn if you have no levels but you will still have the slowness and half health to deal with.

Bah, you got me. Add in acupuncture for curing nerve damage. Slay dragons to feast on their hearts. But for you, I'll be serious.

The nerve damage mentioned is Sensory Nerve damage. This is actually HORRIBLE to have with this medical system. Not interesting in the slightest . If you get burnt and have sensory damage in your right leg. You wouldn't know you are suffering from a laceration until your HP starts dropping away and you inspect yourself to see why you're dying. If blood level is included, everything starting to go dark might be a good indication you're screwed. Motor nerve damage, say from a serious injury (explosions/piecing attacks for eg) that may leave you unable to grasp tools, walk, maybe you can no longer control your eye lids and you have a pumpkin like mask over the top of your screen!

The other main netve (can't remember the name) does things like regulate heart beat, body temperature and other subconscious things. Nothing that really relates to TFC or it's suggestions other than body temperature. This is a game after all.

In fact, damage nerves don't necessarily mean loss of sensation. The opposite, constant sensation is common. Having your arms throw wildly into a seizure in the middle of town and stabbing a shopkeeper certainly isn't a positive. Minor nerve damage can heal over a long time, but for anything meaningful (game-wise, no offence anyone) surgery would be the fix. Not sure if we want to go that far, surgery in the 'time' TFC is set was still pretty barbaric. Death and rebirth still seems like the best game mechanic to cure nerve damage to me.

Losing your bonus health from levels may be necessary if you wish to walk or stop seizing up every other block you try and break. Satisfied?

Horsepower is more of an extraction to proper measurement. To say an Engine can produce X Horsepower is no different to saying Y Torque/tick (or second if you want to keep the 4th wall strong). While it is a fitting measurement to use with steam boilers/engines, working in kilowatts is much easier.

@Euphoric, can't have power without speed.

This is a long-legged post. Please be kind, have a tea, and I thank you for your time.

On base units and power transmission:

Working with torque primary output just seems easiest. Engines could have a force/tick output. Which would be the "power" of the engine in simplest form, using real-world time is just an extrapolation for believability. Depending on the gearing attached to the flywheel the force is converted into torque. Given we can slab blocks and do other cool things, having gears/pulleys sized 1-8 seems feasible. Through the simple formula Torque = Force x radius. That torque can then be transmitted down a line, whatever it may be. To another gear of different size. Allowing power to be broken down. Exchanging torque (therefore Force) for RPM. and vice versa. Some materials may work better at high RPM, others at high Torque. If the force in a system is too high (eg it can't complete power transmission) then shafts or belts can snap if they pass their sheer limit (A single averaged number is better than the handful realistically required). RPM is a bit more difficult to define, and would need to come from the machine itself, opposed to relating to the power generation.

 

Some reverse design may be necessary (starting with engines and tier ending machines) to define the applicable materials, shear limits and therefore RPM of the machines themselves.

Low tech sample of this Unit System in practice:

While the classic wheel style waters mills would be hard to implement in TFC at the moment, they're resource friendly, simple and an easy place to start.

In the 'undercut' style, the mill produces high torque but low RPM (Basis: Large volume of water in the blades, slow moving current). The use of larger wooden parts in the system would work best, such as 'full' logs, or size 6+ gears. A large wooden gear transferring power from the mill into a large log shaft maintains a system of High Torque Low RPM. At areas in you mill you could then have Gears placed on the Log Shafts (or have belts coming directly off the shaft?) onto a smaller gear. Allowing you to run something like a Quern quickly, but still at high enough torque (machines may need a certain amount of Force to run). Using your smarts, or trial and error, the player could find out which of the 8 gear sizes provides enough Force, but the highest RPM for maximum production. Once a member of the system pulls power (Gears/belts could be disengaged/slackened to isolate a member) the available torque is reduced/dispersed appropriately. Provided your primary wooden drive parts are all 'large', the force of a single watermill would not beat the shear limit (Material Shear Strength x Radius?) of the part and cause destruction.

As a note here: Torque or Force doesn't need to be "Used Up" in moving parts. As long as there is no jam in the system, the torque will just dissipate through friction. Should you connect a shaft of gear to something that can get stuck or is locked in place. Bad news for your weakest member!

Addressing resources:

Starting with wood systems is great, because eager plays can whet their appetite for machinery as early as copper or bronze. Copper bearings could be used to limit the amount of wood-abuse. I wouldn't condemn the sheepless to go with-out windmills (If applicable). If needed a large amount of paper would do.

Moving onto higher tech and steam gives the primary advantage of moving the power source (Steam) opposed to the power itself. Saving whatever headaches may occur from players dealing with torque distributions and whatnot. Using larger boilers, much more power can be stored. Starting brass like Dunk said is believable and accessible enough. Perhaps ceramic (Brick/Fireclay?) furnaces are an option for a less efficient (lower burn time) option.

Water, as is, needs some world gen changes I think... With some of this stuff added in, pulleys and ropes could be made into wells, and water left as-is. Collected in rainstorms or tapped from another water source below. gamey Players could dig from the ocean all the way inland to make a remote well if it doesn't require a source block below .

I guess Steam goes here, it's still a resource. Running the steam system in Litres (1 dm³) is the most simple stab I can take. 1 bucket of water is normally 1 block, that amounts to 1000 litres! Which may completely cure my water problems! 1000L is also ~1 ton, not exactly believable. Whatever you configure to be 1 bucket in litres could then be converted into a quantity of steam of your choice, research or balance depending.

Managing steam as a resource:

Chokes could limit power by limiting steam flow (simple wrench-able pipe segments?) by pressure or volume, allowing slightly more advanced control over the system. Vessels (boilers/pipes/engines/tanks) could have a 'pressure' value depending on the quantity of steam, and the heat of the contents. Steam would flow towards the lowest pressure system, until it is normalised. Simplified, from the boiler. The "Exhaust" of steam engines could be connected up into a pipe (should you have the resources), and fed back into a water tank/cooling tank. This would also save you on Water Worries. As long as the boiler is pressure regulated (emergency exhaust valve), and is highest pressure body, there is no need to worry about catastrophic failure. Steam vessels/tanks could be used to capture and move steam between systems (It's a battery! For steam!). Cooling down like other TFC items, lowing the quality of the steam if left for too long. Pressure valves and other dials would look really good amongst the background of TFCs visual treats. Pressure systems!

I'd fix this by giving dirt with grass on top high nutrient levels when turned into farmland, dirt without grass would give low-nutrient farmland. This would allow you to leave the farmland to fallow (after plowing) by letting grass cover it.

I thought this was already the case?

Sluices are NOT worth losing a source block.

That's the point. Bonfires are not 'useful'.

Sounds a bit complicated, Allen. The biggest draw back to steam is water supply*. I haven't encountered too many elevated water sources to tap into (Yay for aqueducts and terraced farms). Having to keep the mechanisms oiled could be a decent draw back. Requiring a little lovin' from the player as it runs. Every day/half day or maybe have an internal oil reservoir you need to top up every so often. When there is no lubricant the engine would halt it's function and begin to overheat. Catastrophic failures would be a pain, but if the boiler has a little pressure tap on it there should be no problems. If the boiler is running but the engine's piston is shut down, no lubricant is used up. That way power can be acquired on demand at the expense of fuel.

The key to getting mechanical power running in this game would be set up in external factors. Would there be elevated water source blocks to run water mills and fill steam engines? Would I be able to tap into the water table with a well to gain remote access to water for steam? Another thing to consider would be using rubber for connecting various rotors, which would save much iron from becoming drive shafts in high torque applications. Would we be able to step up/down power? Send power from a steam engine through a gearbox into the old wooden system? Then what would the power units be? Torque/tick (Torque being semi realistic but game-ified), would give the easiest access to real-world data, and allow us to use a 1-8 size gears and pulleys with-out complex math. Materials could be limited to certain torque loads before destruction, based on their size (if applicable) and their ability to withstand angular deformation. Once the game has the environment and the base units set out, filling in all the different sources and consumers of mechanical power is much easier.

Edit: *In TFC.

Nerve damage.... can we heal that in TFC?

Die and respawn.

I had the same idea as I was writing that. It doesn't seem fair though. You could just place a thatch block where you want torches. Any other non-chisel block would work too. It could work if you wanted to define certain spaces for torches. If, for example, torches did extinguish with time. Chiselling up spaces as torch holders would make replacing them much easier as you would have easy identifiable spaces that scream "A TORCH GOES HERE". Not that the same thing couldn't be done with a thatch, or cobblestone block. In a structure made of a different material.

I think the problem with spawning that isn't based on a block (be a bone/refuse pile, nest or bed), is how the game would define such spawning chunks. Then if the system would be abusable by players. It may be hard to program, or even harder to make it calculation efficient on a server. Where the amount of processing power it takes up my degrade the fun of playing the game. More so than a cool spawning system would enhance gameplay.

I did suggest in the IRC once the idea of animals 'migrating'. Depending on chunk conditions/seasons. They would become eligible for animals to spawn. Deer could spawn in forests during the spring. They would then persist over the summer, and by the end of autumn begin despawning though autumn and winter. Giving you the sense the animals have travelled to feed and live there while they can, then leave (or 'hide' in a next to sleep) before the area becomes unfavourable for living. You wouldn't really be able to make a proper spawner. However if you created small walled-of chunks, with a suitable habitat for certain animals. You could check them over the spawning months to see if you had "Caught" one. Or seed a whole forest for hunting! Deforest a whole mountain for sheep who need the grass to graze. Cows and other grazers would appear during the the months grass has grown the most, or even just in areas where there is a lot of grass. The most basic problem with this kind of system is how similar it is to vanilla spawning. Any problems you may have with that, you would also have with 'Migration'.

@Dunk. Which is weird though. I only had wheat for almost 8 years. Most of my infections appeared in Pastures. There were more infections in orchids than fields, but not notably so. Throwing corn into my mix seemed to increase the gains. Other maps it's harder to tell, being medium/large, I tend to buy multiple types of crop sooner. I still rotate, like you said, to decrease the chance of infection, even if it might not, still worth the effort. There isn't much else to do when it's not winter.

The suggestion forum should really be a spit-ball palace.  Where the Dev's can go to look into the minds of the community and perhaps get a brainwave from a suggestion. A lot of suggestions require A LOT of work, or request the game becomes more of a simulator. Given the scope of the mod (total conversion) it's a lot harder to make some real noticeable progress than other mods.

Take the top off your charcoal pit.