volcanic forgeing and smithing

[Sasqaucth 45]

Still the entire environmental danger of lava = Nonexistence....

I stand by this one hundred percent. If believable is the word, then no lava forges. in fact, no homes near lava.

[Crysyn 179]

Open Invitation: Bioxx's stance on the "Thats not realistic" factoid people pick up on and start throwing around: http://www.terrafirmacraft.com/realism/

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Open Invitation: Bioxx's stance on the "Thats not realistic" factoid people pick up on and start throwing around: http://www.terrafirm...ft.com/realism/

Basically it's Magic A is Magic A

It can be as fantastical and unrealistic as you like, as long as it's consistent and coherent.

Tell your audience that the bad guy's pixie dust powered super particle cannon has a 1 hour charge period, and no one bats an eye. Then have him fire it twice in a row, and the people will demand your blood.

...more reasonable to do the unreasonable...

Unreasonable? Ignore common sense to accomplish the impossible! That's the Gurren Dan way!!

I'll fill up my inventory with buckets and just swap the lava from one to the other until I've gotten it back to my forge!

[lakeel 5]

Basically it's Magic A is Magic A

It can be as fantastical and unrealistic as you like, as long as it's consistent and coherent.

Tell your audience that the bad guy's pixie dust powered super particle cannon has a 1 hour charge period, and no one bats an eye. Then have him fire it twice in a row, and the people will demand your blood.

Unreasonable? Ignore common sense to accomplish the impossible! That's the Gurren Dan way!!

I'll fill up my inventory with buckets and just swap the lava from one to the other until I've gotten it back to my forge!

>.> for 1 the lava is finite so you cant swap it between buckits. just like thewooden buckits. and it is consistent to reality >.>

[lakeel 5]

Open Invitation: Bioxx's stance on the "Thats not realistic" factoid people pick up on and start throwing around: http://www.terrafirm...ft.com/realism/

and my idea fits in that description perfectly >.> i am determined to have this implimented. i shall go rent college books and proove this is possable >w> which it is

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

>.> for 1 the lava is finite so you cant swap it between buckits. just like thewooden buckits. and it is consistent to reality >.>

Pfft, don't pester me with little details!

[Crysyn 179]

Ok, talking about this in the IRC channel here is what we came up with

1) Iron melts at 1538c

2) Lava (whats on the surface) has a temperature range of: 700-1200c

3) Magma (Whats below the surface) has a temperature range of: 700-1300c

Now I will admit in rare instances when Komatiite is introduced into the magma as been seen at 1600c which is above Iron's melting point... but that is a rarity ... Sooooo assuming you want to look this up in books and prove it possible I think it is possible only for the starter metals up to about the bronze area (950c)?

So if this could not be used to melt down Iron or steel or the like why would it be worth the effort to do all of this?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Ok, talking about this in the IRC channel here is what we came up with

1) Iron melts at 1538c

2) Lava (whats on the surface) has a temperature range of: 700-1200c

3) Magma (Whats below the surface) has a temperature range of: 700-1300c

Now I will admit in rare instances when Komatiite is introduced into the magma as been seen at 1600c which is above Iron's melting point... but that is a rarity ... Sooooo assuming you want to look this up in books and prove it possible I think it is possible only for the starter metals up to about the bronze area (950c)?

So if this could not be used to melt down Iron or steel or the like why would it be worth the effort to do all of this?

...cuz it'd be badass?

Isn't that what matters?

[Scooterdanny 285]

I consent, after reading what Bioxx wrote, i am actually interested in seeing something like this added, even if it is just for shits and giggles, but there is another point i would like to make, Bioxx himself said he wanted replayability to be enhanced by making a wide variety of materials, trees, metals, etc so if you spawned near a lava pool on the surface, i suppose it would be sweet to melt metals over it, to bypass the early pain of using firepits.

[Ryuugumo 88]

So if this could not be used to melt down Iron or steel or the like why would it be worth the effort to do all of this?

It could be used as a dwarven forge. A sationary forge used to melt lower grades of metals; however, more importantly it would be used to cheaply heat iron to a workable state. You would still need bloomeries to melt down your iron, but this would be awesome for everything just short of that.

BTW I don't think lava should ever gain the ability to be moved in any way other than channeling it.

[lakeel 5]

Ok, talking about this in the IRC channel here is what we came up with

1) Iron melts at 1538c

2) Lava (whats on the surface) has a temperature range of: 700-1200c

3) Magma (Whats below the surface) has a temperature range of: 700-1300c

Now I will admit in rare instances when Komatiite is introduced into the magma as been seen at 1600c which is above Iron's melting point... but that is a rarity ... Sooooo assuming you want to look this up in books and prove it possible I think it is possible only for the starter metals up to about the bronze area (950c)?

So if this could not be used to melt down Iron or steel or the like why would it be worth the effort to do all of this?

see the scooterdanny guy agress with me >.>

also. how are we able to use the chared remains of logs (charcoal) to get to temperatures like that? explane to me how it is physically possable to use half burnt logs to generate enough heat to melt iron. or even the made up metals like blue and red steel?

[Sasqaucth 45]

Super heating with kilos of the stuff? pay attention to the measurements in your bloomery, it can hold a max of 90 kilos of coal, without ores. So optimal heat to metal would be mostly 75 kilos coal, 15 kilos of metals.

[lakeel 5]

It could be used as a dwarven forge. A sationary forge used to melt lower grades of metals; however, more importantly it would be used to cheaply heat iron to a workable state. You would still need bloomeries to melt down your iron, but this would be awesome for everything just short of that.

BTW I don't think lava should ever gain the ability to be moved in any way other than channeling it.

finally someone halfway on my side ^^

firstly it can be used for that

secondly. the buckits pick it up. it become finite lava. meaning if you place it down its not a sorce block. its just hollow lava that will disapear inn a few seconds...and lickly set the forest on fire

also flowing lava is harder to get than usable diamond in TFCraft

[Scooterdanny 285]

i must disagree with that, just find a pool of lava, and build a channel.

also, charcoal burns extremely hot if given the correct circumstances, have you used it yourself?

[lakeel 5]

Super heating with kilos of the stuff? pay attention to the measurements in your bloomery, it can hold a max of 90 kilos of coal, without ores. So optimal heat to metal would be mostly 75 kilos coal, 15 kilos of metals.

its char coal... i understand how char coal can still burn and hold its heat for a while. so 75 kilos of coal about 165 pounds of coal, which probably wouldnt fit in a 3x3x9 foot area is suppost to burn without choking itself out and melt 33 pounds of ore (15 kilos) which flows to the bottom over the coals without extinguishing them.......yep.........realistic....

[lakeel 5]

i must disagree with that, just find a pool of lava, and build a channel.

also, charcoal burns extremely hot if given the correct circumstances, have you used it yourself?

i must disagree with that, just find a pool of lava, and build a channel.

also, charcoal burns extremely hot if given the correct circumstances, have you used it yourself?

i ment lava pools are rare not flowing lava >.>

also yes i have used char coal to fuel a forge i made of a steel water tank and lined with 2 inches of cement with a hole in the bottom for the leafblower to provide air. i used charcoal,oak, and pine logs and fat-lighter (mostly charcoal once i got the fire going.) i was able get heat tempered steel to glow a light red and i managed to get to get iron rebar a light red as well but i couldnt get the iron to melt

[Scooterdanny 285]

Well of course not, even with proper ventilation, it is VERY difficult to do, however, it was done in the past, by smiths, so obviously, it IS doable. bellows also help.

[Crysyn 179]

see the scooterdanny guy agress with me >.>

also. how are we able to use the chared remains of logs (charcoal) to get to temperatures like that? explane to me how it is physically possable to use half burnt logs to generate enough heat to melt iron. or even the made up metals like blue and red steel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal

Metallurgical fuel

Charcoal burns at intense temperatures, up to 2700 degrees Celsius. By comparison the melting point of iron is approximately 1200 to 1550 degrees Celsius. Due to its porosity it is sensitive to the flow of air and the heat generated can be moderated by controlling the air flow to the fire. For this reason charcoal is an ideal fuel for a forge and is still widely used by blacksmiths. Charcoal is also an excellent reducing fuel for the production of iron and has been used that way since Roman times. In the 16th century England had to pass laws to prevent the country from becoming completely denuded of trees due to production of iron. In the 19th century charcoal was largely replaced by coke, baked coal, in steel making due to cost. Charcoal is far superior fuel to coke, however, because it burns hotter and has no sulfur. Until World War II charcoal was still being used in Sweden to make ultra high-quality steel. In steel-making, charcoal is not only a fuel, but a source for the carbon in the steel.

[Scooterdanny 285]

Quality post there Crysyn but as he showed, charcoal is an extremely viable fuel if you know what you are doing.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

sigh... really? Don't think it's going to happen, sorry

and also, heat mapping updates in the future might make it so that lava taken away and placed elsewhere will solidify. Only magma that is connected via hot spots to the *mantle* will stay liquid, as it has an *infinite* source of heat.

[Jed1314 420]

-snip-

Seconding this, I run a forge at home and charcoal is the way to go !

[Ryuugumo 88]

I'm a smith by trade and wether you're talking about a forge or bloomery they both must have proper air flow. The air-blasting is what super-heats the coal to the temperatures we need. It is the best heating method I have found (gas forges are a joke.) With that being said, yes charcoal, native coal, and coke are the only way to go with iron and steel; however, it would be fun reguardless of the "realism" to make a lava forge even if it had to be in a pocket or at the core and couldn't melt iron or steel.

[lakeel 5]

sigh... really? Don't think it's going to happen, sorry

and also, heat mapping updates in the future might make it so that lava taken away and placed elsewhere will solidify. Only magma that is connected via hot spots to the *mantle* will stay liquid, as it has an *infinite* source of heat.

well...so much for the 7 hours of effort i put into this....oh well...

[Jed1314 420]

well...so much for the 7 hours of effort i put into this....oh well...

Don't get bummed out about it man, I have made many, many suggestions and some have been well received and others not.. It is the risk we take when we put our ideas to the public.

You didn't waste your time though, no suggestion (ok, most suggestions) are ever a waste of time because they might have been great. The only wasted suggestion is the one that stays in your head without ever being thought about properly

[lakeel 5]

Don't get bummed out about it man, I have made many, many suggestions and some have been well received and others not.. It is the risk we take when we put our ideas to the public.

You didn't waste your time though, no suggestion (ok, most suggestions) are ever a waste of time because they might have been great. The only wasted suggestion is the one that stays in your head without ever being thought about properly

if its not used and never will be used then its wasted is it not? >.>