Could TFC learn some lessons from A Song of Ice and Fire ?

[Jed1314 420]

TFC is a mod centred around the search for a balance between realism, believability and playability.

The fantastical elements (I won't say fantasy setting, even though it is >.<) of minecraft makes this slightly difficult to acheive.

Some people have suggested removing these elements entirely. I disagree. I love the fantasy side of this game and would be very sad to see it go.

I think that TFC could take some serious lessons from ASOIAF (known to some of you as A Game of Thrones). It is set in a fantasy world, but your nose is not rubbed in it constantly. The day to day life of the characters is similar to medieval Europe and comparable regions. However, the fantasy elements still exist: Dragons, Powerfull priests and priestesses, the Others, greenseers etc. These things are massively powerful and poorly understood. Perhaps this is just the balance TFC needs.

[XelNigma 11]

Is it just me or did you just say a lot of nothing?

Maybe im just too dumb to understand what your saying.

Iv never seen game of thrones, could you give some examples of what you mean?

[Jed1314 420]

Is it just me or did you just say a lot of nothing?

Maybe im just too dumb to understand what your saying.

Iv never seen game of thrones, could you give some examples of what you mean?

I wouldn't say I said a whole lot of nothing, I was purposely vague though. I hoped it would promote discussion and stop me from dropping any spoilers

I couldn't say based on the TV series as I have only seen a couple of episodes, but I have read all the books. In AGOT there are several fantasy aspects, such as "The Others", as well as dragons and some magic. Unlike most fantasy books though, they aren't generally an accepted part of the world. They border on superstision. I think fantasy being elements like that (e.g. Zombies being super powerful and very rare as opposed to crap and common) would really make them special. You wouldn't be like *sigh* "Not another skeleton" >.< .. You'd be like "Woah ! What the hell is that !"

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

You wouldn't be like *sigh* "Not another skeleton" >.< .. You'd be like "Woah ! What the hell is that !"

For that, Bioxx could simply write in the changelog "completely removed skeletons, zombies and other vanilla mobs", change their texture, make them spawn more rarely and *poof* surprise every time you find some of those mobs :3

[noctem9 13]

I have also read the entire series thus far so I understand what you are trying to say and I kinda like it. I like the idea of having zombies more rare but ultimately much more powerful and hard to stop. Maybe even having the option to use tools or substances that are more effective at stopping them. If any sort of "magic" is introduced to this mod I feel it would best come into play through natural means (ie. alchemy/herbalism) rather than introducing a sort of energy/mana system. This would keep it in line with the natural, unforgiving and earthly overtones that this mod provides. Making the world feel more strange, supernatural and unpredictable in that respect would do wonders for the atmosphere of this mod.

[benkc 1]

Removing all the common enemies, perhaps replacing them with wild animals, and possibly adding in several powerful/weird/rare monsters does sound like a good fit. In order for the weird stuff to stay weird, though, it would have to be quite rare indeed -- perhaps tied to certain seasons, biomes, etc in addition to being an uncommon spawn.

Edit: I believe the genre term is "low fantasy" -- mostly realistic with a few fantastical elements.

[Jed1314 420]

Edit: I believe the genre term is "low fantasy" -- mostly realistic with a few fantastical elements.

The difference between low fantasy and high fantasy is slightly more complex than that, but yeah, basically

[mrpwase 66]

This would be perfect. Everyday enemies you might encounter in the woods (wild boar, bears, wolves, ferocious hedgehogs) would provide a challenge while not ruining MY IMMERSION :qq:, and then every once in a while, on a new moon or during a thunderstorm, or even in the deep caverns and the like, you might encounter more fantastical monsters. Stuff that would provide more of a challenge, would make you afraid of the dark and certain events such as dark nights and storms, and would not require too much suspension of disbelief. I like it.

[Jed1314 420]

This would be perfect. Everyday enemies you might encounter in the woods (wild boar, bears, wolves, ferocious hedgehogs) would provide a challenge while not ruining MY IMMERSION :qq:, and then every once in a while, on a new moon or during a thunderstorm, or even in the deep caverns and the like, you might encounter more fantastical monsters. Stuff that would provide more of a challenge, would make you afraid of the dark and certain events such as dark nights and storms, and would not require too much suspension of disbelief. I like it.

Yes, I mean when you think about it, all of the horrible creatures of superstision were said to come at night, and not in large numbers

In summary, I just really feel that supernatural and fantastical enemies should have power and an air of fear about them, as well as being very difficult to kill. I imagine Steve trying to battle the forces of "evil" in a kind of futile fighting retreat

[noctem9 13]

I think it would be cool if the ambient temperatures/seasons affected a mobs abilities and properties. For example in the dead of winter a zombie would be completely silent and also move slowly, maybe a snare effect when hit by one. It would be scary to turn around face to face with a zombie you were not prepared to fight. In the summer, they could move more quickly and inflict poisonous bites. Of course these monsters would be rare, and maybe tough enough that you would need 2 people to kill one, or 1 well prepared person. At the same time I don't think there should be any sort of reward for fighting them. The only reward is to live on and keep fighting the good fight. This would stop them from being actively hunted, thus keeping the element of surprise and atmosphere intact.

I also really like the idea of natural wildlife being the more likely cause of strife. Porcupines, snakes, maybe mountain lions. Sneaking could take a larger role when out gathering resources in order to avoid unwanted attention.

This mod could be fleshed out extremely well and I can't wait to see what the future holds for TFC. Favorite Minecraft conversion mod hands down.

[Murry Folt 3]

This sounds like the MO Monsters mod for minecraft (I think that's what it's called) that I've heard of. That mod didn't look compatible with TFC, but I really liked the idea. Lots of normal animals, but occasionally some "other" creatures as well such as werewolves, ogres, etc.

The idea is a good one. I've watched the series and for the most part, you forget you're in a fantasy world because everything looks so medieval. Then you see dragons and magic and you're almost suprised over the fact. If that balance could be added to TFC, I'd have a hard time turning of Skyrim at times.

[XelNigma 11]

I think your speaking of Mo'creatures

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/81771-v125-mo-creatures-v371-with-mohorses-donkeys-mules-zebras-zorses-and-extrabiomesxl-support/

I tryed this mod out once before, I didnt like it because it seemed to require the old style creature spawning effect that made all my pinned up animals despawn.

also it seemed like the mod was constantly throwing the animals in your face. Maybe its been toned down and improved sense last I played.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I think your speaking of Mo'creatures

http://www.minecraft...omesxl-support/

I tryed this mod out once before, I didnt like it because it seemed to require the old style creature spawning effect that made all my pinned up animals despawn.

also it seemed like the mod was constantly throwing the animals in your face. Maybe its been toned down and improved sense last I played.

the smp version had serious issues with ostrich spawns. In desert biomes you would end up with like 8 million of the fuckers if you didn't actively cull the population.

It was an ostrage!

[Murry Folt 3]

Yeah, that was it. Mo'creatures.

I never tried it myself because I already had TFC and it sounded heavily incompatible that I never bothered uninstalling TFC to actually play it. But I did like the idea of so many creatures added. Plenty of variety to make normal enemies normal creatures, and the fantasy creatures rare and dangerous.

[Jed1314 420]

Yeah, that was it. Mo'creatures.

I never tried it myself because I already had TFC and it sounded heavily incompatible that I never bothered uninstalling TFC to actually play it. But I did like the idea of so many creatures added. Plenty of variety to make normal enemies normal creatures, and the fantasy creatures rare and dangerous.

It's a good mod, though it leads to total screen clutter :S Seemingly, instead of being sensible and spawning a realistic distribution of mobs, they spawned everything everywhere

[kotoroshinoto 97]

they spawn all of the dangerous mobs everywhere, but the snakes / birds /etc seem to be distributed logically. Turtles and crocs only spawn in swamps, the problem is they put too much spawn control tweaking in the user's hands (with the default settings not really spawning enough animals, and the guide being fairly noninformative) and almost none of it is easily done for servers.

[Serkas 14]

I definetly like your idea to make hostile "unrealistic" mobs something more special, I think we also need some more natural mobs like the bears. Maybe foxes, snakes, some stuff like that was posted before. The Mo's creatures mod never really convinced me cause the mobs didn't look that good, there were kind of to common and they all got special abilities, what made it kind of silly (just my opinion, maybe some of you love the mod), but I think if we could get a tweaked, realistic version of this it would make the TFC world more interesting and maybe also increase the survival aspect, because you could also get attacked during a daily scouting tour and not only at night when you sleep in your safe house.

The wolves are a good start but there could be a little bit more...

[psychotimo 5]

well, as for the animals: i support the idea of adding some more animals to the mod, but IMO it's hard to keep it nice and balanced, for example: all the sea-creatures in drzark's mo'creatures really mess up the sea/rivers, i mean... sharks swimming in both the sea and in rivers? (i know, some type of rivershark might exist, but not in the same size as a seashark O.o ),turtles everywhere,...

adding things like bears in forests that go 'hunting' at night and thus turn hostile at night, snakes that don't want to be approached (with different textures depending on biome, desert-snakes vs jungle-snakes etc),... could be a very nice idea.

but to get a bit more on topic: i've seen both seasons thus far and have read the first 2 books... a song of ice and fire is so damn awesome xP

anyways, making zombies and other vanilla mobs more of a rarity (think... a bit more regular than spider jockeys?) could be a nice idea, somewhat like the white walkers beyond the wall, who haven't been seen for thousands of years and finally resurfaced etc

P.S. i can see that 'a song of fire and ice' could add a lot to TFC but it's hard to really point out the useful things IMO, if i think of some other possibilities to add i'll be sure to post them here :3

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

well, as for the animals: i support the idea of adding some more animals to the mod, but IMO it's hard to keep it nice and balanced, for example: all the sea-creatures in drzark's mo'creatures really mess up the sea/rivers, i mean... sharks swimming in both the sea and in rivers? (i know, some type of rivershark might exist, but not in the same size as a seashark O.o ),turtles everywhere,...

adding things like bears in forests that go 'hunting' at night and thus turn hostile at night, snakes that don't want to be approached (with different textures depending on biome, desert-snakes vs jungle-snakes etc),... could be a very nice idea.

but to get a bit more on topic: i've seen both seasons thus far and have read the first 2 books... a song of ice and fire is so damn awesome xP

anyways, making zombies and other vanilla mobs more of a rarity (think... a bit more regular than spider jockeys?) could be a nice idea, somewhat like the white walkers beyond the wall, who haven't been seen for thousands of years and finally resurfaced etc

P.S. i can see that 'a song of fire and ice' could add a lot to TFC but it's hard to really point out the useful things IMO, if i think of some other possibilities to add i'll be sure to post them here :3

let's see...

-the bull shark *closest translation i could make XD* is a shark which lives both in the sea and the rivers, and even though it's not as big as the white shark, is by far more violent and dangerous.

-i think someone said the animals are going to get/already have a hunger system that will force them to feed, and bears, as far as i know, go hunting whenever they're hungry IRL. Do the maths.

-yep, it's awesome as hell :3 even with the mexican voices version they show some times here...

Other than that, i have to say... either re texture the mobs, or completely replace them with TFC fitting versions. Not saying that they get every magic thing out, but the vanilla mobs are already known for those who we have been playing minecraft for a long, long, LONG while -i myself begun when beta came out, but i know some guys here where in the game from alpha, and maybe there's someone who has known indev and previous releases...-, those being the majority of the game's community. For those who we are already used to hear the creeper explosion, discovering a zombie and fight to death with it wouldn't be like "OMG WTF IS THIS???", but more like "God dammit, another freaking zombie. And a though one -_ -" -that's my case, i don't know how you guys would react -. As for which replacements i propose... i haven't though of that. Maybe, tomorrow i will suggestion post with the replacements.

Oh, i just remembered that i -somewhere- asked them to add giant underground lizard -dragons without wings :- protecting great, rare goodies in a giant dragon cave -a generated structure which would look like a wierdly big cave, with no stalagtites/stalagmites (i don't know which ones are the one's in the floor), in which A dragon can spawn- somewhere in the suggestion's section. I still want them in game :

[Keyboard Retard 0]

I think there should be some fantastic things, mainly occult stuff, you know, like raising the dead and casting curses over other people.

The way you would do that would be by brewing potions and doing rituals, if done right they will give you an orb of the resulting effect, wich you can throw, a hard throw will send it long away untill it hits something or looses momentemum, a weak throw will gently put it on the ground, steahily inflicting the area around with its effect.

Oh, also going to the nether shouldnt be everyday business, it should be a very rare thing generated in caves deep, you know, like generated nether portals that work, but you cant make your own, etc etc.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I think there should be some fantastic things, mainly occult stuff, you know, like raising the dead and casting curses over other people.

The way you would do that would be by brewing potions and doing rituals, if done right they will give you an orb of the resulting effect, wich you can throw, a hard throw will send it long away untill it hits something or looses momentemum, a weak throw will gently put it on the ground, steahily inflicting the area around with its effect.

Oh, also going to the nether shouldnt be everyday business, it should be a very rare thing generated in caves deep, you know, like generated nether portals that work, but you cant make your own, etc etc.

I don't know about that "you can be a necromancer" thing. We are talking about the magic being something rare, feared, the mobs being greatly strong creatures that will be as rare as diamonds in vanilla. We are talking about the magic being something that looks like irreal, extremely powerful, that can not be used by any Steve being (i don't think any human can hold the amount of things he can : or looks cubical), unless he has got the rare maerials, the correct equipment to handle and defeat something as powerful as this misterious energy. If some thing like dark magics was being included, i'm seeing it as something extremely difficult to get to work for you, dangerous, with great sacrifices, and, if any mob was as well capable of handle it, your abilities against it's abilities would be like a trycicle against a tank.

And about the nether, that was already discussed in the suggestion forum, and Dunk has stated what he thinks is gonna do with the nether -i'm still not sure if he was confirming it, or just saying what he thinked-, so that's pretty much covered in another thread.