Cartography

[DocStineTM 15]

you know, i really find it sad that you guys dont have a credit list for you two working on this so much, not to mention that other people had bits and pieces that might have brought together your ideas, could you(i am asking very very very very very nicely) to make a credits section on this post please, ill give you a cookie and a red steel star.

[ECC 508]

I dont see a point. I mean assuming it gets implemented we'll all feel that warm and fuzzy feeling. Dont need the credit, we ourselves know who did what.

besides, No matter how good the idea is, best not to assume its getting implemented. I have seen ideas that were great. Perfect even and they did not get implemented for any number of reasons. And no, not just this game, others too.

I think im saying 'Im not counting my/our eggs yet'

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

The thing is, i really don't need a credit on this. If i were to make it, Dunk and Bioxx would be included there, and in big, red letters. I/we may have had the idea, but neither of us could have implemented it by itself in the mod (not counting legal reasons, because neither of us knows coding as they do). If this was implemented, all the hardest work would have been done by them.

Suggesting is showing your ideas, but most of the accepted suggestions are those that are in fact giving away them. We obviously would like to get credit for them, but isn't it enought to play a mod that contains what you said?

[DocStineTM 15]

oh no, not what i was meaning, i ment credit for collaboration of just us TFC players who thought out the idea. but i see your point all the way, i know that we all had some sorta insight on this topic, also i guess its not really right to assume credit for anything cartography because we all get our ideas derived from history anyway.

So lets give a round of applause to the historic cartographers of before our time!! *fist bump Galileo who was one of many masterminds of his time*

[Gorni 73]

A little revival from my side here. I found a game in steam today - miasmata - that has a very intresting way of doing maps. To show you, watch the video starting at 10:50, there you can see how cartography is done in that game. It's done really nicely. Wondering what you think about that. Also the game is pretty intresting.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Thanks, thanks, thanks...

thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks

For the revival

Now, honestly, i don't quite like it... It's not a horrible system, but that game seems to try to be really realistic, and the drawing in the map not only being perfect but also being made automatically, no ink, nothing? i don't think so. The concept is really nice, but i don't like the way it's done... even though triangulation could help a lot to our map building concept.

This is basically what i would take from there and adapt to what we (ECC and i) already suggested:

-That line that appears in the map can stay, although only if it can be changed in the configurations wether it appears or not.

-It won't fill anything in the map, it will just merely mark a straight line across the map that goes through both the point you are looking at and the center of the map OR the point you are at, depending on if that point is you are in is depicted or not in the map.

-You then will have to draw by yourself whatever landmark it's pointing at.

-It takes ink, as always, and it won't be erased from the map, as always.

-For drawing it, you have to look in whatever direction you wanna make the line, and right click while holding shift (similar to placing log piles).

-It won't be tied either to man build landmarks, nor natural ones, because there isn't a way to differentiate them from the rest of the world in TFC without getting into much more complicated stuff; instead, it's only tied to how the player uses it. If you wanna put it that way, it's basically just a tool for drawing.

Some other "tools" could be added for drawing, but would require new actual tools for the task (a brush to make wider lines, for example).

[renadi 258]

Lovely concept, absolutely useless as an ingame concept.

There are no landmarks as such recognized in the game, you can sure use what do exist to triangulate yourself, but it wouldn't be a gameplay mechanic, it'd just be good thinking on the player's side.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Lovely concept, absolutely useless as an ingame concept.

There are no landmarks as such recognized in the game, you can sure use what do exist to triangulate yourself, but it wouldn't be a gameplay mechanic, it'd just be good thinking on the player's side.

*pokes* hey, i already said that a post ago...

[Gorni 73]

I didn't mean that the system could/should be implemented into MC 1:1 but i thought it's a nice idea for a map system. Its about the deepest map handling i ever saw in a game. I mainly just wanted to show you how another game implemented a bit deeper cartography. i don't want MC to spam statues all over the place so i can triangulate it, that would be stupid. But i knew we were having such a topic and thought it may be a nice addition to it.

Also about the no ink stuff ingame: It fits pretty well to the rest of the game and it's hard enough already...believe me you get lost so easily and find yourself hunted by the creature.

[renadi 258]

*pokes* hey, i already said that a post ago...

Your post was most definitely not there nor was there a message that there had been a new post when I clicked on my post button.

So far as I know you went back in time to say what I had just said.

[halfmaster1 77]

First of all, I didn't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been suggested but:

You should be able to draw on paper. You should be able to grab a piece of paper, a quill, and draw whatever you want. This would allow people to draw maps, therefore requiring skill similar to real life cartographers. This would also allow labels, and mistakes.

It also would open up a bunch of new possibilities. Postcards? Sure.

[Gorni 73]

First of all, I didn't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been suggested but:

You should be able to draw on paper. You should be able to grab a piece of paper, a quill, and draw whatever you want. This would allow people to draw maps, therefore requiring skill similar to real life cartographers. This would also allow labels, and mistakes.

It also would open up a bunch of new possibilities. Postcards? Sure.

pls not... i would be lost forever.

[ECC 508]

'First of all, I didn't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been suggested but:

You should be able to draw on paper. You should be able to grab a piece of paper, a quill, and draw whatever you want. This would allow people to draw maps, therefore requiring skill similar to real life cartographers. This would also allow labels, and mistakes.

It also would open up a bunch of new possibilities. Postcards? Sure.'

either your new, or you needed to read the damn OP. at LEAST the part not in spoilers. Im pretty sure I went over that. the side effect of the proposed system is people being able to make art using it.

[halfmaster1 77]

I saw the painting part, but I missed the drawing over part. I thought that just meant you could stick them to a wall.

Anyways, I disagree that the map should generate as you walk around. You should have to do that all yourself.

Sorry about missing that part, are you sure you had that part and the spoilers when you posted? Probably, as I was not very awake.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Im pretty sure I went over that. the side effect of the proposed system is people being able to make art using it.

In fact it was me the one that suggested the ability to actually draw and the consecuent ability to make pixel art...

Anyways, I disagree that the map should generate as you walk around. You should have to do that all yourself.

It's not an exact drawing of your surroundings, nor is it automatic (you actually have to stop and use the item for that sketch of the area). It's just a guide you can quickly make in your map, wherever you are in, for later use when you actually have the needed tools for making the map.

[halfmaster1 77]

I don't think there should be a guide of any kind. Even if you have to stop and mark your surroundings, if it does it automatically, then it doesn't really make sense. Even if you later have to copy it by hand, it isn't really challenging, it is just tedious.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

There is a reason i'm saying it would be a guide, and a sketch... i only accepted it if it was unaccurate enough you could go there and make it in a comparable amount of time. Basically, just lines, with no distinction between anything and anything, no colour, nothing; just bad made lines.

Whatever, it's a tool for the map, you wouldn't be forced to use it. If that's not enough, it can be toggleable in TFC's configs. It's just so it isn't extraordinarialy hard to be good at carthography; a masterie should be known by little people, yes, but the chance of being good at it should be equal for anyone willing and able to practice it. That's, at least, my opinion.

[killster550 401]

perhaps one would simply get a vague oversight of the recorded chunks with no details and force the player to show where there is a passage, or a house, and where there are mountains and caves via the suggested painting system? that'd make things a lot more skill-demanding

[halfmaster1 77]

Okay, so there are going to be random lines?

What does that mean?

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

perhaps one would simply get a vague oversight of the recorded chunks with no details and force the player to show where there is a passage, or a house, and where there are mountains and caves via the suggested painting system? that'd make things a lot more skill-demanding

... And what if you want to make the map on a different scale? ._. I'd prefer not to force the player in any sense, leaving the players in freedom of choice.

Okay, so there are going to be random lines?

What does that mean?

(This was in response to what i said, or what killster said? if it was for me, down here is the answer; otherwise, just ignore it

Ok, i don't think i explained it properly...

The lines aren't random. They outline some things near you; a tree, height changes, separation between water bodies and earth... However, there isn't any kind of indication of what is what, there is no colours or any kind of detail. The tree may look like a like due to the shape of it's leaves; the height changes may look like there is a river there; and so on. It's on you, when you are near a proper workstation, to mark what's what in some way: colouring, detailing, or just plain writing the name there.

[halfmaster1 77]

That would help a person have an idea of what is where, but I think it would beeasier to simply draw on a blank piece of paper. I don't really think those lines should be added, either, as it gets rid of the necessity for a sense of scale.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

That would help a person have an idea of what is where, but I think it would beeasier to simply draw on a blank piece of paper. I don't really think those lines should be added, either, as it gets rid of the necessity for a sense of scale.

I- *thinks for a second*... You know what? i don't know why i'm defending this idea, ever since i wated it to be just like what you said :

Damn, now i have to read all the thread again just to know whose idea was this and why i accepted it...

[Mephistos_chan 26]

The map should generate only when selected and in my opinion should only should only show things like coast outlines and countour lines. However, I haven't seen mention of another really good use which is a geological survey map. Every time you use a prospectors pick on a surface rock it marks the rock type on the map, assuming you have the prerequisites in your hot bar. You could slowly build up a geological survey, each point surveyed shows up as a coloured blob and as the blobs build up they colour in the map, if two different colours are close enough they split the difference between them.

The map could also function as a minimap (I always use Rei's minimap my MC sense of direction sucks). I would also suggest a 'cartographers' table that can only be crafted with a specific tier of metal, meaning that the player wouldn't have access straight away and blank maps would have to made on it. As a side benefit the prospectors pick would then tell you what type of rock you had struck as opposed to saying 'nothing of interest'.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

-The map won't generate, YOU will draw it. Therefore, whatever you want it to include will be included.

-I haven't mentioned the survey map and similar things 'cause after all, the map is user made; the user can make it in the way he wants. If he needs to make a geological map, nothing will stop him from doing it, but nothing will make it for him either.

-The point was for it NOT to function as a minimap, in the sense it won't show you where exactly you are there, just some visual clues you drawed there 'cause you know you will recognise them.

-The carthographers table seems pointless; a map doesn't give the player a HUGE advantage if he can't make 'em well, so there is no reason to tie carthography to metals in that way; the Scribing table will do for the function.

-And finally, the prospector pick telling you the rock type is an already made suggestion which has nothing to do with this one, which seems pointless 'cause you can just pick up a loose rock nearby. Or, if it's a second or third layer of rock, if you got there you probably already have a pickaxe... so, you know, mine it :

[killster550 401]

if its completely playermade, it'd be awesome for people that trek out a lot, it'd help them recognize landmarks on the map as they go (hell, they can even make a side view of a mountain, including height, as route marker