Redstone (And How It Should Work)

[bsb23 303]

I fully one hundred percent agree however we can have both and use them as tiers instead can't we?

[ThinkTank 77]

Redstone has been done.

By other mods.

like, really really well done.

done to death.

best to leave it well alone.

if you want redstone stuff, use buildcraft/redpower.

cinnabar & cryolite producing redstone is enough compatability to allow for this.

Mechanical power is the way to go if TFC wants some sort of power system in its future that matchs the mods themes. But it runs into the problem of creating dynamic AND animated multiblock structures. So far a few mods that have managed this, (buildcraft quarrys, redpower frames, ugocraft, BTW windmills & wheels) but not to the extent it could replace redstone or one block GUI machines. Also lag, If reports on Ugocraft are to be believed, truely motile block systems create ridiculous amounts of lag, which is a shame. So just consider that asking Bioxx & co to embark on a mechanical power system for minecraft is pretty much asking them to make a whole new mods worth of stuff.

[redundantusage 330]

To an extent I'll agree, if we were to have a largely fleshed out mechanical system like some of the big ones, it'd probably lag bad and be hard to code and implement. However, I think the real point of the mechanical power is a basic system. We wouldn't want automated farms or forges, that takes away from the survival aspect. Any mechanical power or machines added should be like the bloomery or forge in that it's a slightly more advanced tool that might let you do something more efficient or streamlined, but not something you walk away from while the game plays itself. All that said, I'd really like to work hard and scrounge and put effort into getting a basic windmill, not because I need one, but because what village is truly complete without?

[renadi 258]

Mechanical power could just be redstone reskinned, instead of redstone we have gears, and instead of torches we have levers, wheels, or other things to apply force. Although with gears we'd likely have three states instead of 2, off, clockwise and counterclockwise.

[ECC 508]

I would go for an advanced pipe, pulley, and gear system based on the principles of steam and kinetic technology. No real animation on any of it beyond basic function blocks(such a a boiler)

No. Im not talking steampunk, Im talking about real world steam and kinetic mechanics as a replacement. Gears would for the most part need to be Close-boxed to avoid having to animate them.

[achartran 465]

Mechanical power could just be redstone reskinned, instead of redstone we have gears, and instead of torches we have levers, wheels, or other things to apply force. Although with gears we'd likely have three states instead of 2, off, clockwise and counterclockwise.

Wasn't gears the original idea Notch had before redstone?

[LordOfWolves 514]

Wasn't gears the original idea Notch had before redstone?

Sure, but ugly gears, useless gears, not normal gears.

[renadi 258]

I would go for an advanced pipe, pulley, and gear system based on the principles of steam and kinetic technology. No real animation on any of it beyond basic function blocks(such a a boiler)

No. Im not talking steampunk, Im talking about real world steam and kinetic mechanics as a replacement. Gears would for the most part need to be Close-boxed to avoid having to animate them.

I could see the reasoning of that, and really the gears would have to be able to work on all sides so a gear could really be 1-5 gears in one spot if it was actually functional, so putting them in visually could have a lot of complications. Though it would be nice if a single line of gears was visible, then again, it'd probably make everything excessively steampunkey.

Still, it would have to be obvious that it's sending energy and in what way, I'm sure some devices will be able to accept any non 0 input, but some may take a positive and negative change differently.

Oh the potential, I'm off dreaming in my head of possibilities.

[ECC 508]

Incorporate redstone into the box as a on/off indicator. Not as the transfer mechanic, only as the light.

[bsb23 303]

Look we can talk til we are blue in the face about alternate uses for redstone and then using mechanical power but you are all missing the point here. Why not use both? Is there a law against that do we have to remove something to replace it? Why can't we just leave it and force it on to a back burner? It doesn't take much coding, redstone would no longer be necessary but it also wouldn't be gone.

Everyone is happy.

[renadi 258]

Look we can talk til we are blue in the face about alternate uses for redstone and then using mechanical power but you are all missing the point here. Why not use both? Is there a law against that do we have to remove something to replace it? Why can't we just leave it and force it on to a back burner? It doesn't take much coding, redstone would no longer be necessary but it also wouldn't be gone.

Everyone is happy.

Except Bioxx, who doesn't like redstone.

and really, it's perfectly possible to do the same things with each, so there's no point in having both be identical, although, I suppose in our world mechanical and electrical power are used together, but that's usually because using gears to transfer power into homes and such would be quite a bit larger and prone to breaking.

in Minecraft we can't make redstone significantly smaller than mechanical power, unless gears and such are multiblocks wide.

[bsb23 303]

That was kind of the plan redstone be redstone maybe with the degenerative debuff. Than mechanical power be much more useful.

The mechanical power would need to use entities as gears, otherwise we would end up with only one type of gear. To create sizes we would probably need the woodworking mechanic so we can craft more sizes of gears we would probably need a couple types of gears also

[ECC 508]

Redstone could easily be outmoded by multi-signal/state transfer. Also, Adding some of the mechanics from btw, one could effectively make systems for transporting livestock and players between points, something that redstone alone can not achieve.That is of course, ignoring railways, something I have always found entirely useless and redundant in minecraft. and in a mod that forces you to be efficient, wasting materials on a redundant system is problematic. I rather waste wood and rope on a pulley system to transport materials between the bottom of a mineshaft and the surface with ease then waste iron on minecarts and rails

[Wicc3R1 36]

i just wish that Bioxx leaves redstone in as cinnabar because Forge has oredictionary nowadays and i still can build all RedPower 2 items. TFC ores metals are same as in redpower, only thing bothering is that makin mean flying digging machines it will take a bit (read ALOT) more time and handwork...

Maybe wrought iron somehow "revert" to be as vanilla iron???

EDIT: ropes, pulleys, gears? maybe way of TFC power???

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I have yet to even SEE cinnabar even once, he made it so rare that its almost ridiculous

[Wicc3R1 36]

Ye, its quite rare, its in 4-5 ore clusters, 1 ore 8 redstone... all i found have been really deep at lava levels. Dont remeber finding any above 20y???

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I have yet to even SEE cinnabar even once, he made it so rare that its almost ridiculous

It is as rare as... well, any other non starter, non copper-containing ore. It's just hard to find because it only spawns in basalt (to my knowledge...

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

I have yet to even SEE cinnabar even once, he made it so rare that its almost ridiculous

you are looking for it in basalt right?

cuz thats where i found some the first time i played TFC

[Wicc3R1 36]

That i think of this i found it only at black stones, basalt maybe...

And we still can make redstone torches and steeldoors. I even did flipflop switch few days ago

Ecdit: checked my world and it was normal wooden door... maybe just got a brainfart...

[achartran 465]

It's just hard to find because it only spawns in basalt (to my knowledge...

Only time I ever found it, it was in schist I think, could have been something else, but definitely not basalt.

[Wicc3R1 36]

I just went and checked my 52e world... Its Slate stone where i last found it

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Yeah... i got it from basalt last time, as Noodles :

I seriously need to take a look at the wiki, to see what they have done so far (and, of course, to see where cinnabar spawns)

[ThinkTank 77]

You can extract 8 redstone from a single piece of cinnabar or cyrolite ore.

Cinnabar can be found in Basalt, Rhyolite, Shale.

Cyrolite can be found in Basalt, Slate.

So overall you can find redstone in 4 out of 23 rock layers.

Whether or not cinnabar or cyrolite forms superveins deeper down is somthing you'd need to ask the coders, and check ingame as ore spawn rates have (or had) a nasty habit of spitting out one sort of supervein over and over. If you are planning on playing with redstone hungry mods, I'd say you'd need to hit at least one supervein to supply your needs.

To me this seems perfectly reasonable, there are plenty of very popular mods that make use of redstone, so removing it entirly would put this mod on the same road that BTW went down (the 'use my mod and only my mod' one).

At the same time, magical conductive powder isnt Bioxx's cup of tea, which isnt a problem, this mod isnt about that sort of thing. So compatibility for other mods is still there, but redstone isnt a major focus for anything in the mod.

Things are fine as they are.

In other news: did you know cinnabar mines where some of the most horrific in the world? "the toxic properties of mercury were well known. It was dangerous to those who mined and processed cinnabar, it caused shaking, loss of sense, and death...data suggests that mercury was retorted from cinnabar and the workers were exposed to the toxic mercury fumes."

[LordOfWolves 514]

-snip-

True, removing redstone would create the BTW2 mod. Not removing it maintains the compatibility with a lot of mods. Many mods use redstone in their recipes. I use only TFC, but other people that use things like redpower (still not completely compatible due to the generation of nikolite) can't use it anymore if redstone is deleted.What I can suggest is a in game button that says "Enable redstone?" or at least put a string in the config to enable the redstone recipes.

[ThinkTank 77]

Kind of a moot point with Redpower really, as its world gen code for volcanos was playing merry hell with TFC worldgen code last time I tryed it in 1.2.5. Had lava poping up all over the place like a rash. Hopefuly elloram will eventualy include a way to turn off her worldgen.