mobs excessively difficult to kill

[kotoroshinoto 97]

... the equator being devoid of trees is not an intended feature. It's a bug. Then, it will, regardless of your opinion, be fixed sooner or later.

Funny fact, it in fact requires a thousand hits to kill a zombie.

Funny fact about the previous one, i found out the hard way.

if i had only to deal with a single zombie then I might be able to do it, add skeletons and spiders and it becomes untenable

[bsb23 303]

Since when has this mod catered to new players?

If we aren't we need to, I'm not referring to those who are incapable of playing period but rather the people who could play but are immediately turned off by something. It doesn't need to be easy it just needs to be understandable. As for surviving at the equator it should still be possible but it should by no means be easy at all. Does that mean random trees in the middle of the desert maybe in an oasis but thats about it. Does that mean that tools should be possible to use without wood, just less efficiently, yes.

As much as I dislike his defensive stance kotoroshinoto does have a point we shouldn't need to restart maps over and over to find a good seed, we should be able to effectively start from anywhere although hopefully our game will be very different depending on where we start.

Edit: Didn't see the previous posts, nonetheless my point still stands.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

This mod is still in beta. Though it have had some stable builds, the missingness (i don't really think this word exists ) of features is expected whenever is updated. 'Till we get to a full version ("full" in the same way MC 1.0.0 was the full game...), there are things we just have to get used to; for example, unplayable worlds. About half of the users (and the other half should do it as well) already got used to get our worlds wiped out by an update, so how much trouble can start another world be? It's not like you made great advacements and discoveries in that unplayable world...

[kotoroshinoto 97]

If we aren't we need to, I'm not referring to those who are incapable of playing period but rather the people who could play but are immediately turned off by something. It doesn't need to be easy it just needs to be understandable. As for surviving at the equator it should still be possible but it should by no means be easy at all. Does that mean random trees in the middle of the desert maybe in an oasis but thats about it. Does that mean that tools should be possible to use without wood, just less efficiently, yes.

As much as I dislike his defensive stance kotoroshinoto does have a point we shouldn't need to restart maps over and over to find a good seed, we should be able to effectively start from anywhere although hopefully our game will be very different depending on where we start.

Edit: Didn't see the previous posts, nonetheless my point still stands.

thank you for understanding what I was getting at without just attempting to shut me up. Thats what set me off about those other responses, it wasn't even the rudeness per se, it was the appearance of a complete lack of any attempt at understanding the point or simply not caring enough to respond to it.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

This mod is still in beta. Though it have had some stable builds, the missingness (i don't really think this word exists ) of features is expected whenever is updated. 'Till we get to a full version ("full" in the same way MC 1.0.0 was the full game...), there are things we just have to get used to; for example, unplayable worlds. About half of the users (and the other half should do it as well) already got used to get our worlds wiped out by an update, so how much trouble can start another world be? It's not like you made great advacements and discoveries in that unplayable world...

as far as i'm concerned anything i'm not explicity told is a bug is a feature until I am told otherwise or its so absurd that it just HAD to be a bug. (as in breaking kapok toolrack givng me an oak one)

So the missing trees seemed to be a feature, since there were occasional patches of 1 or 2 small kapok several miles apart in one section (in another section I walked for 3 or 4 days without seeing trees at all).

All the while when night fell I was being beaten and dragged around by spiders and skeletons dying constantly and I was completely helpless against them unless I just dug a pit and hid in it. It did NOT help things that it was the Halloween patch and the pumpkin head mobs were wrecking my shit all day as well as all night. It would be preferable that I could do something else other than hide, even if I have had the bad luck of spawning in a desert or treeless plains area. I could TOTALLY understand a person removing this mod and not looking back if their first experience was like this, especially if they tried to tough it out and then came across the smithing GUI for the first time.

it was not intuitive at all that an axe would be useless against a spider, so i had not thought to make a knife the one time I was lucky enough to find a normal forest, and so I died thinking I could defend myself, the axe just broke and did nothing. Completely unexpected and anti-intuitive by the way.

It didnt look like a bug. It seemed to me it would be a very strong putoff to a person new to this mod, and so I went to the forum to suggest something be done about it.

This IS a suggestion forum after all.

[renadi 258]

I'm all for most people being put off by this mod.

most products made recently are put out for the widest possible number, but that doesn't make a tight focused product, Bioxx has already done this to a degree I think with what people call ''RPG'' elements, and I'd really rather it not continue on too far.

I want this game to be as unforgiving as this world to survive in.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I'm all for most people being put off by this mod.

most products made recently are put out for the widest possible number, but that doesn't make a tight focused product, Bioxx has already done this to a degree I think with what people call ''RPG'' elements, and I'd really rather it not continue on too far.

I want this game to be as unforgiving as this world to survive in.

again, I think you are somewhat missing the point. I don't think theres a problem with ppl being put off by the smithing GUI, or the complexity of searching for ores, but being completely unable to defend yourself other than hiding in a hole like a bitch simply because of where you spawned is a bit much. At least in vanilla I could build a small dirt mound to hide in, with the dirt sliding mechanism I can't even build a dirt hut. At best I can build a small 1x2 protected space out of rocks->cobblestone (a mechanic that isn't even intended to remain in the game according to notes in earlier changelogs, as there will be some other method for changing rocks into cobblestone blocks)

In normal MC I had to do that (hiding in a dirt crying hole) when I first started because I was clueless, but in TFC I have to do it regardless of how much I know if I happen to spawn in a bad place, and that is just bad gameplay.

[achartran 465]

If we aren't we need to, I'm not referring to those who are incapable of playing period but rather the people who could play but are immediately turned off by something. It doesn't need to be easy it just needs to be understandable. As for surviving at the equator it should still be possible but it should by no means be easy at all. Does that mean random trees in the middle of the desert maybe in an oasis but thats about it. Does that mean that tools should be possible to use without wood, just less efficiently, yes.

As much as I dislike his defensive stance kotoroshinoto does have a point we shouldn't need to restart maps over and over to find a good seed, we should be able to effectively start from anywhere although hopefully our game will be very different depending on where we start.

I completely agree with almost everything you just said, we do need trees near the equator (oases do sound really cool ) and a weapon that doesn't require sticks wouldn't be a bad thing. But JAG makes a really good point right above this post, TFC is in beta, that means it isn't finished and we are all essentially beta testing this mod for Bioxx and Dunk, so that they can work on new features without needing to test each one completely by themselves. Being in beta also means that for the time being we will sometimes have to find workarounds for some wrinkles that are not yet ironed out, and that includes generating a new world if you get a shit seed.

On an unrelated note that I thought about when you mentioned oases.

TFC seems to have the locations of jungles and deserts switched, because (at least on Earth), deserts appear on the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn and jungles (or similar tropical areas) appear on the equator. In TFC it seems that deserts appear on the equator and jungles appear on the tropic lines (in TFC about +-5000 Z). I have no clue if this is intentional or not, just something I noticed.

thank you for understanding what I was getting at without just attempting to shut me up. Thats what set me off about those other responses, it wasn't even the rudeness per se, it was the appearance of a complete lack of any attempt at understanding the point or simply not caring enough to respond to it.

I wasn't trying to shut you up, and just for the record I kind of agree with what you're saying, I just think you're going about getting your point across in a rather unpleasant way :/

1.) as far as i'm concerned anything i'm not explicity told is a bug is a feature until I am told otherwise or its so absurd that it just HAD to be a bug. (as in breaking kapok toolrack givng me an oak one)

2.) So the missing trees seemed to be a feature, since there were occasional patches of 1 or 2 small kapok several miles apart in one section (in another section I walked for 3 or 4 days without seeing trees at all).

3.) It didnt look like a bug. It seemed to me it would be a very strong putoff to a person new to this mod, and so I went to the forum to suggest something be done about it.

4.) This IS a suggestion forum after all.

I'm going to respond to each of your four lines of text individually, they are numbered in the quote for further clarity.

1.) That is the wrong way to go about, as I said earlier in this post, we are ALL beta testing TFC. That means it is our collective job to be looking out for bugs so that Bioxx doesn't have to. If Bioxx had to test every feature he implemented fully this mod would be update MUCH less frequently, and wouldn't be in the same place it is today. You shouldn't expect others to think for you, because often times they won't. (hint: checking the change log is a good way to tell if something is a feature or not )

2.) It's a bug, trees are kinda important in TFC, Bioxx wouldn't make 1/2 of the habitable zone of the world unplayable on purpose.

3.) If they can't think to generate a new world if they have problems, this isn't the mod for them.

4.) Yes, it is. But this is less of a suggestion for a new mechanic/game play element than it is saying "fix this" without even a please attached. I honestly do think that this topic belongs in support or discussion, because it doesn't really suggest anything, at least not in the OP.

again, I think you are somewhat missing the point. I don't think theres a problem with ppl being put off by the smithing GUI, or the complexity of searching for ores, but being completely unable to defend yourself other than hiding in a hole like a bitch simply because of where you spawned is a bit much.

It's not intended, just be patient and Bioxx will get around to fixing it. Until then, just start a new world, it won't kill you.

TL;DR: just read the fucking post

Oh, and Koto, please don't double post,

Effects of double posting can include severe OCD related injury, melting, rapid expansion of the head, rapid expansion of entire body, spilling the spaghetti sauce, incurring the wrath of the Spaghetti Eldritch God, Waste of Space syndrome, and in extremely rare cases death by dragon.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

and in extremely rare cases death by dragon.

especially dragons of the eternal variety

[achartran 465]

especially dragons of the eternal variety

You've experienced these symptoms before? If so, I have to ask, how are you still alive, or are you?

Dun dun dun

[renadi 258]

... but being completely unable to defend yourself other than hiding in a hole like a bitch simply because of where you spawned is a bit much...

I'm having trouble finding a problem, survival is hard, that is the entire purpose of this mod

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I'm having trouble finding a problem, survival is hard, that is the entire purpose of this mod

we get it. you don't understand. we've explained it to death, you still don't understand the point, if you have no constructive criticism simply move on please. These negative posts are completely pointless. You have already stated this, the new post adds no new content at all.

[renadi 258]

You've trouble determining the difference between opinion and fact... I'm out of here but really, that's something you might want to consider.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

You've trouble determining the difference between opinion and fact... I'm out of here but really, that's something you might want to consider.

you have disagreed then, multiple times, but never with more than 3 -4 very short sentences, so i dont feel especially inclined to give you another well thought out response at this time.

It is hard to see your insistence, even if it is completely what you believe to be the best direction of the mod, as anything more than an attempt to antagonize or instigate at this point because you are not bringing any thoroughly explained posts to the table.

Those who are in agreement with me are not insisting that bioxx make the mod easy or forgiving, but we do feel the current setting is not balanced at all even for a "hard" difficulty setting. Your responses do not reflect what we have stated, but rather reflect the opinion that we are trying to ask for "easy mode", or at least your shortness lends to this seeming opinion. In any case it makes you seem exceedingly dismissive, and possibly that you haven't actually fully read what we wrote because you don't address it.

[achartran 465]

Kotoro, just chill out and stop being so defensive, you're being just as negative as you accuse everyone else of being. Also, I am confused as to how all of a sudden it was "us" against renadi. No one here has outright agreed with you, because you really aren't going about this in a very good way, in fact, you are going about this horribly. And honestly, you cannot disprove someone for not writing more than a few sentences, often times that's all you need to convey your point.

I do understand your point (although, I think you are greatly exaggerating the importance of the issues you have brought up, they have a VERY easy workaround solution), but you've made it a billion times already, and the issues are something you are just going to have to work around until Bioxx fixes them.

So please, can we stop beating a dead horse and let this thread die now? Its getting a little ridiculous.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Kotoro, just chill out, you're being just as negative as you accuse everyone else of being. Also, I am confused as to all of a sudden it was all "us" against renadi. No one here has outright agreed with you, because you really aren't going about this in a very good way. I understand your point, but you've made it a billion times already, and the issues are something you are just going to have to work around until Bioxx fixes them.

So please, can we stop beating a dead horse and let this thread die now? Its getting a little ridiculous.

Look I"m all for constructive discussion, but he wasn't providing anything other than a "no sir I dont like it" continuously. I am simply tired of those kinds of responses, and not just to this thread. I see it happening all over the forum, and it very quickly leads to derailment and kills threads. When somebody has already stated exactly that, once, what point is there to keep reminding us of it except to antagonize?

If you came away from what I said as it being "us" against renaldi, you're WAY oversimplifying what I was trying to say. Its not an us vs them issue at all, but his responses were so curt, that it was not really possible to respond to him in a more meaningful way any further than I already had. When I said "those that agree with me" I was referring to the aspects they agreed with, not claimaing they completely agreed with me in every way.

i'm trying to not be childish and petty, but while i'm not going to bend over backwards to be civil and kind, I can at least not rage at him senselessly, but rather explain why I felt his responses were not helpful.

If someone posts a "this was already dealt with, go toanother thread" kind of short answer, even if its rude Its understandable, but that wasn't the case with this particular exchange . (someone else did post a similar thread, but that thread was NOT a response to the recent changes., it had already existed)

[achartran 465]

Look I"m all for constructive discussion, but he wasn't providing anything other than a "no sir I dont like it" continuously. I am simply tired of those kinds of responses. When somebody has already stated exactly that, once, what point is there to keep reminding us of it except to antagonize?

Stop complaining about other members and let this thread die, I'm sure Bioxx is going to fix these issues, but until then just forget about it, you aren't going to make it any better by using this thread to complain about every single person who doesn't completely and totally agree with you.

now PLEASE, let this fucking thread die already.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Stop complaining about other members and let this thread die, I'm sure Bioxx is going to fix these issues, but until then just forget about it, you aren't going to make it any better by using this thread to complain about every single person who doesn't completely and totally agree with you.

now PLEASE, let this fucking thread die already.

you're still missing the point, and deliberately now.'

Your claim " using this thread to complain about every single person who doesn't completely and totally agree with you." is simply not what I'm trying to do here, but clearly the point isn't getting across, so I'll let it drop after saying my piece here.

i dont' care that he disagreed, thats not why I was irritated. there have been several much more meaningful responses that disagreed with me and I have taken no offense to it. Now you're trying to turn this into a personal vendetta and thats not what I have here.

Not just his responses, like I said this isn't personal, I have no strict issue with him alone. There have been many responses to several different threads people have posted on this forum smacking of the desire to create a culture of exclusivity and a superiority complex about aiming to make this mod so difficult to survive in that only the most elite will play it. I'm pretty sure thats not whats intended with these changes. Its meant to make the game less forgiving yes, but not with the intent of driving people away. (now these features might be expected to do just that, but its doubtful that it was the primary reason for adding these features). It makes it seem like he WANTS to drive people away from playing TFC which to me seems counter to the good of the mod in general, but you see bits and pieces of this kind of opinion everywhere. I've seen it several times in the thread discussing death penalty options.

Now I'm done with this thread, unless someone makes another claim about me or my opinions in this matter that are not correct (I'm not claiming that my opinion is truth. i mean "correct" in the sense of claiming i'm angry simply because i have been disagreed with, not the substance of the point I had made. That sort of thing is not called for here.)

[achartran 465]

Not just his responses, like I said this isn't personal, I have no strict issue with him alone. There have been many responses to several different threads people have posted on this forum smacking of the desire to create a culture of exclusivity and a superiority complex about aiming to make this mod so difficult to survive in that only the most elite will play it. I'm pretty sure thats not whats intended with these changes. Its meant to make the game less forgiving yes, but not with the intent of driving people away. (now these features might be expected to do just that, but its doubtful that it was the primary reason for adding these features). It makes it seem like he WANTS to drive people away from playing TFC which to me seems counter to the good of the mod in general, but you see bits and pieces of this kind of opinion everywhere. I've seen it several times in the thread discussing death penalty options.

We (or at least me) don't want to drive people away, I just don't think the mod should make sacrifices so that just a few more people will play for an hour longer until they come up against metal working :/

Anyways, yup, let's be done with this.