Cold Suggestions

[MDub 68]

So ive been spending alot of time in the cold, and thought I would share a few of the things I wish I could do:

 

First, there really needs to be an alternative source for thatch. In cold climates, grass virtually never grows. This makes settling down there much much harder, as there is no local resource for pit kilns. I suggest allowing us to create thatch from the reeds that grow in fresh water, or perhaps adding some taiga shrubbery that drops thatch.

 

Second, let us harvest snowballs. I found a sneaky way around this using water, IE if water breaks a snow patch it still drops snowballs, but using a shovel or by hand, it does not. We should be able to acquire these objects, and build snow blocks from them. I like my igloos, and cultures through the eons have used snow as a building material. No sense in leaving it out of TFC.  Im on the fence about snow blocks responding to gravity or not (igloos roofs are snow after all), maybe you can limit their range like the horizontal behavior of the support beams? Regardless of how that works, snow blocks should melt. Just a simple mechanic where they disappear when in + temperatures for prolonged periods of time.

 

Third, I think that snow should be allowed to build up over time. In exceedingly cold places were the temperature rarely gets above 0, the snow should be allowed to pile up 3-4 deep on the map.The snow already somewhat does this by forming a layer, then a deeper layer over time. It would be cool if it continued to pile up until it became a solid block of snow (the snow block). It would be really really cool if snow could build up to 3-4 layers, then over time the bottom layer will turn to ice, and another layer could be added to the snow, setting some maximum of 2-3 layers of ice and the aforementioned 3-4 layers of snow. The ice part could be tricky, what with it reverting to water when its broken or melted, but the idea of natural and dynamic glaciers in TFC is very appealing to a frozen copper miner like myself.

 

There should also be a greenhouse mechanic. If I was to build myself an enclosed area, that was lit well, had direct LoS to the sky (through glass), I should be able to regulate the temperature inside of it somewhat. I wouldnt be in favor of being able to grow any arbitrary plant on a glacier, but a green house should provide acceptable growing conditions for hardy plants.

 

These suggestions just come from dealing with the hardship of living in the cold. IMHO, the dynamic weather conditions are one of the signature features of TFC. Why give us these awesome weather mechanics, but leave tech progression crippled for those who want to experience it.

[GopherAtl 22]

re: the cold climate alternative to thatch... why not just snow?  I'm not sure what the reason is for not being able to shovel snowballs and then craft snow blocks, but if you could do that, snow blocks would seem like a perfect replacement for thatch in extreme climates where there is no tall grass to cut. It would be even easier to gather than thatch, but particularly after body temperature is added, shelter will be even more crucial in cold climates, and with the added downside of them melting when/if the temperature rises, it seems a fair trade-off to me.

 

dunno about the gradually turning into ice thing, but snow accumulation is something I've thought about; not sure it would really add much to the game, but since vanilla already supports rendering multi-layer snow, I don't why it would be hard at all to add, so in terms of cost/benefit it seems like a good idea to me, personally. I'd probably limit snow depth to 1m, though, just by preventing new snow layers on top of full snow blocks, but I think it'd make snowy environments a bit more visually interesting - they can be somewhat dull, currently, with the lack of tall grass or plants.

 

I'm guessing greenhouses are one of the many complications that may or may not become possible during or after the new body temperature (and, I think, temperature in general) changes, which will be no sooner than build 80 from the latest I've heard. Not sure when green houses were actually invented, though, so not sure how believable it would be in context..

[MDub 68]

@GopherAtl "why not just snow?" Because I have to be able to make pit kilns ;P

 

I suppose its doable without thatch, provided there was an alternative material to use as the kindling for the kilns.... perhaps a mechanic similar to coal, but for peat? Where we could break peat up in layers like coal, and the 'peat nuggets' for lack of a better word, are interchangable with the thatch pieces used in the pit kilns.

[Terex 108]

Third, I think that snow should be allowed to build up over time. In exceedingly cold places were the temperature rarely gets above 0, the snow should be allowed to pile up 3-4 deep on the map.The snow already somewhat does this by forming a layer, then a deeper layer over time. It would be cool if it continued to pile up until it became a solid block of snow (the snow block). It would be really really cool if snow could build up to 3-4 layers, then over time the bottom layer will turn to ice, and another layer could be added to the snow, setting some maximum of 2-3 layers of ice and the aforementioned 3-4 layers of snow. The ice part could be tricky, what with it reverting to water when its broken or melted, but the idea of natural and dynamic glaciers in TFC is very appealing to a frozen copper miner like myself.

 

I wanted this too. Apparently, it was said this happened out of control in an earlier version, and the rate of accumulation was nerfed. But it was said that snow can still pile up indefinitely but I could not reproduce it on the tallest mountain in the most northern regions (z = -30,000). In fact, i saw snow layers despawn from 2 layers back to 1 layer in freezing conditions. I think very rarely did i observe snow accumulation of 3 layers on a block.

[MDub 68]

I wanted this too. Apparently, it was said this happened out of control in an earlier version, and the rate of accumulation was nerfed. But it was said that snow can still pile up indefinitely but I could not reproduce it on the tallest mountain in the most northern regions (z = -30,000). In fact, i saw snow layers despawn from 2 layers back to 1 layer in freezing conditions. I think very rarely did i observe snow accumulation of 3 layers on a block.

 

 

Thats interesting, because I too noticed the second layer of snow randomly being lost in sub zero temperatures. Never knew an attempt at implementing this was made before... I suppose it would only serve to help learn from past mistakes

[GopherAtl 22]

@GopherAtl "why not just snow?" Because I have to be able to make pit kilns ;P

 

I suppose its doable without thatch, provided there was an alternative material to use as the kindling for the kilns.... perhaps a mechanic similar to coal, but for peat? Where we could break peat up in layers like coal, and the 'peat nuggets' for lack of a better word, are interchangable with the thatch pieces used in the pit kilns.

 

eh, I dunno, tall grass can already grow in sheltered places, like under trees, where snow doesn't accumulate. Not enough to easily build with, but I think enough for pit kilns. Gathering enough that way to build even a very small shelter, on the other hand, could be very difficult, particularly before freezing to death once body temperature is implemented.

 

:edit: I've been corrected below, apparently tall grass just doesn't grow at those temperatures and I've somehow failed to notice.

[MDub 68]

@GopherAtl tell that to the vase expanse of land with no grass on the server ive been playin on . Just an example, this weekend it turned to spring on the server im on. I waited for the weather to average ~ 1 degree... and there was no snow as far as the chunk loading would allow. All weekend long, searchin in a 600-1k radius from my house... in all that time I found a single tall grass plant, and it was not located under a tree. I live in a sequoia forest, so a good portion of the ground is protected from snowfall as you suggest. If that had much effect on grass growth, or was the single prohibitive factor, I would have seen some grass by now.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

eh, I dunno, tall grass can already grow in sheltered places, like under trees, where snow doesn't accumulate.

 

This is incorrect. Tall grass requires a minimum temperature of at least 20 before it will start sprouting on top of grass blocks. If snow is accumulating, even just outside, then it is too cold for tall grass to grow.

[GopherAtl 22]

oh, really? Surprised I hadn't noticed that, sorry, my bad.

 

Hmm. A random thought I'd had before in a different context... what about pine straw? Needling evergreens are the most common trees in these climates. Having the leaves drop pine straw when broken is an option, though unless trees regrow leaves, it would be non-renewable, and making those trees regrow leaves would make sapling collection perhaps a bit too easy. Instead, what if the leaves for these trees have a small chance on random tick of shedding straw. The shed straw could form a thin layer, similar to snow, on the blocks under the tree's leaf blocks, which could be collected and used like the straw from grass/grain.This would, I'd think, make it as accessible as, if not more than, reeds, and also make it renewable, like tall grass in warmer climates.

[Thrainn 2]

oh, really? Surprised I hadn't noticed that, sorry, my bad.Hmm. A random thought I'd had before in a different context... what about pine straw? Needling evergreens are the most common trees in these climates. Having the leaves drop pine straw when broken is an option, though unless trees regrow leaves, it would be non-renewable, and making those trees regrow leaves would make sapling collection perhaps a bit too easy. Instead, what if the leaves for these trees have a small chance on random tick of shedding straw. The shed straw could form a thin layer, similar to snow, on the blocks under the tree's leaf blocks, which could be collected and used like the straw from grass/grain.This would, I'd think, make it as accessible as, if not more than, reeds, and also make it renewable, like tall grass in warmer climates.

I like the idea of needles falling, that would give forests an interesting ground texture ...But do you really think, that needles are stable enough to build ANYTHING?I think that falls way too short of believability, let alone realism.

[Reyvinn 18]

I think needles should be only used for pit kilns, and for building we could use snow, as suggested before. In my opinion it is pretty interesting and balanced feature, becouse when availible straw would be still better solution considering you can do both with it.

[GopherAtl 22]

thrainn, have you never seen bails of pine straw? you could certainly build with them. And if you're trying to inject realism here, neither could be built with irl without being tied.

[Thrainn 2]

thrainn, have you never seen bails of pine straw? you could certainly build with them. And if you're trying to inject realism here, neither could be built with irl without being tied.

In fact I haven't, despite growing up countryside ...But still, I agree with Reyvinn, needles should only be used for kindling, not for building, for balance reasons. Like that, in combination with snow, i kinda like the whole idea