To Upgrade or Not To Upgrade, That is the Question...(Discussion/Questions Regarding Performance in TFC)

[RandomASCII 5]

Currently, I have a very old computer. I have such an old computer that it very much surprises me that even vanilla Minecraft runs on this thing. It does, as does TFC, at a pretty sad framerate on pretty sad settings. Depending on how things that are a bit more personal than I'd like this thread to be go, I may have a completely new computer. However, I'm contemplating a quick fix for my performance problem. You see, this very old computer of mine has a phenominal processor for it's time and a decent amount of RAM. Well...I consider 2.5Gb to be a pretty decent amount considering this computer is about 14 years old. However, I have one problem that I feel might just be the primary cause of my terrible performance. My graphics card is a potato ._. Here's how bad my graphics card is, it doesn't even have OpenGL 2...Hell, it doesn't even support antialiasing! That being the case, since graphics cards are apparently much cheaper than I thought they'd be, I'm contemplating buying a new one to extend the life of this computer at least into next year. This is mostly because I have no idea if I'll have enough for a completely new computer by then. I probably would for something low end, but I basically want to get a really nice computer that I can make last as long as this one when taken care of.

 

While this would help with general performance of everything, based on what I know, I am not entirely sure that it'll make a difference with Minecraft or even TFC since. from what I've heard, Minecraft's engine is written in a way that is much more CPU intensive than GPU intensive. This makes me wonder if it would even make a difference with TFC performance. I don't really know how TFC is written, if it depends more on the GPU than the CPU, but it's a mod of Minecraft, so I figured that ti probably would utilize the CPU more. A dual core 2.8GHz processor can only get you so far though if you have a potato GPU and 2.5Gb of RAM. I'm not exactly an expert on this though, so I thought I'd ask the good ol' TFC community!

 

Also, please don't bother posting if all you're going to say is that my computer is shit and I need to just buy a new one. Obviously, that would be a very quick fix. Here's the prblem though, I can much more easily spend 100 or so dollars on my current income than I can spend $600+. I'm not made of money and you probably aren't either. Furthermore, why is it such a terrible thing to want to make it work on old machinery anyway? Isn't it a good thing if you can manage to make something with such low power run something that usually give high end computers a run for their money? Sure, the experience is probably going to be awful in comparison to what you can get with a newer and more powerful machine, but some people don't really care about the best graphical fidelity and framerate. Frankly, I'm satisfied with somehow managing to get this thing to run TFC in 480p @ 30fps. Would I love being able to run this game at, say, 4k @ 120fps? Sure! Wouldn't everyone? But that's going to have to wait whether I buy a new graphics card or not.

[Terex 108]

You need to list the specifics of your computer hardware in order for any of us to give you an informed opinion. You can't just throw in a new graphics card in a 14 years old computer. There are limitations.

 

EDIT: Also I would say Minecraft can be GPU limited if all you do is increase the render resolution and your frame rate plummets.

[Thrainn 2]

I can say that the GPU does indeed make a difference, at least in my case. My Laptop has 2 GPUs, and usually automatically choses the one he needs for certain tasks. One is a relative low performance Intel GPU which doesn't eat too much recources and is used for your everyday tasks. The other one, a nice NVidia, is selected for most games.

Now, I recently had serious framerate issues with TFC, after not playing any minecraft for half a year or so, which made it almost unplayable. I then discovered the cause, that my computer didn't use the high performance NVidia GPU for it. After forcing my Laptop to use that one for Java (adding th *.exe to the NVidia library), it suddenly ran as smooth as it can be, and I even could increase my graphic settings

So in my opinion, you could try a nice new GPU (but check if it works with your PC first!); you can always use it later with your new PC too

[RandomASCII 5]

I can say that the GPU does indeed make a difference, at least in my case. My Laptop has 2 GPUs, and usually automatically choses the one he needs for certain tasks. One is a relative low performance Intel GPU which doesn't eat too much recources and is used for your everyday tasks. The other one, a nice NVidia, is selected for most games.Now, I recently had serious framerate issues with TFC, after not playing any minecraft for half a year or so, which made it almost unplayable. I then discovered the cause, that my computer didn't use the high performance NVidia GPU for it. After forcing my Laptop to use that one for Java (adding th *.exe to the NVidia library), it suddenly ran as smooth as it can be, and I even could increase my graphic settings :)So in my opinion, you could try a nice new GPU (but check if it works with your PC first!); you can always use it later with your new PC too

 

 

I have picked out one already that I plan to buy and have made sure is compatible with my computer, so there's no problem there. It's just a matter of ordering it now.

[Terex 108]

I have picked out one already that I plan to buy and have made sure is compatible with my computer, so there's no problem there. It's just a matter of ordering it now.

 

Why can't you be more specific?

[AHrubik 5]

My system:Core i5 4590GTX 780 OC3x500GB 7200rpm RAID-03x 24" Dell IPS monitors NVSurround @ 3600x1920. (75% of 4K)I can run plain TFC 79.9 @ 60fps. With Ultra Shaders I can run it @ 20fps.Please tell us exactly what the makeup of your computer is so we can suggest the best route to invest your money.

[Hector49er 31]

Why can't you be more specific?

 

Truer words were never spoken. This is the bloody internet, the homeland of ambiguity. We can't help if we don't know what we are helping about. It's like calling a Mechanic and telling him " I want my vehicle to work better " but you won't tell him what it is or anything else about it.

[Hector49er 31]

So in my opinion, you could try a nice new GPU (but check if it works with your PC first!); you can always use it later with your new PC too

 

Not nesicarily true. If his computer has for instance an AGP slot then the video card that he buys will NOT be useable in a new computer. Considering that PCIe didn't come out until his Computer was 4 years old that's probably what he is dealing with. Besides, any VC that is compatible with a really old computer probably won't be supported by the newer OSes and such.

[InsaneJ 561]

Please post:

• Motherboard brand + model
• CPU brand + model
• Graphics card brand + model

If your computer really is 14 years old, then you'd probably be better off not investing in it anymore. Better save up for a new computer rather then wasting money on components that really won't make much of a difference.

 

Alternatively you could buy a second hand computer. A computer with a quad core CPU of 2 or 3 years ago and ditto graphics card will run TFC just fine without costing a lot. There are stores that sell these computers with limited warranty if you don't like things like ebay.

[RandomASCII 5]

Why can't you be more specific?

I can, I just didn't think the brand would've made a difference.

 

Not nesicarily true. If his computer has for instance an AGP slot then the video card that he buys will NOT be useable in a new computer. Considering that PCIe didn't come out until his Computer was 4 years old that's probably what he is dealing with. Besides, any VC that is compatible with a really old computer probably won't be supported by the newer OSes and such.

I think I was wrong about the dating of this computer. I assumed it was 14 years old because the person I got it off gave me a Windows 2000 manual with it for some reason. If memory serves, this computer has two PCI slots. It doesn't have a PCIe slot though.

 

Since multiple people have asked for it, I'm going to post a more complete list of specifications. I just need a moment to gather them, as I don't remember the model and brand of every part.

[AHrubik 5]

So a 14 year old computer would have an AGP slot for graphics and a single core processor. You might be running Windows XP but very badly since SP3 optimized XP for dual core processors. 2.5GB of RAM was the standard for a system sold with a 32bit Operating System.

If this is correct no amount of optimization is going to help because 32 bit Java can only address 1GB of memory and a 32bit OS can't run 64 bit Java which is what provides the most gains when it comes to modded Minecraft like TFC.

This is a capture of the memory requirements of TFC running on Windows 10 with Java 7 64bit.


Your best bet is to continue saving and build a new system when you can save up $500 or so.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

A quick search on wallmart and they have a windows 7 refurbished dell with 4 GB for 150 bucks. Is 10 times better than  a 10 year old computer with the most expensive Video card.

[Terex 108]

While I generally do not encourage buying a low end PC and rather you should simply save up for at least a mid-range PC, Newegg also lists some cheap All-in-One refurbished desktop computers

 

e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883250757R

[TonyLiberatto 364]

While I generally do not encourage buying a low end PC and rather you should simply save up for at least a mid-range PC, Newegg also lists some cheap All-in-One refurbished desktop computers

 

e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883250757R

Totally agree. Better to save and buy at least a mid range computer. Buying a Video Card for a 10 year old computer is like buying a new transmission for a 30 year old car.

[RandomASCII 5]

For everyone who wanted the specs:

http://www.computer-specifications.com/specifications/Gateway-5200S-Specs.html

The only difference is I added 2GB of ram to the base 512MB.

[Terex 108]

So a Pentium 4 2.8 GHz, and some AGP graphics card?

 

One of the fastest AGP graphics card ever released was the ATI RADEON 4670. But this card is still easily more than $100. Also it is crap compared to today's standards:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+4670&id=12

 

I once had a custom built P4 - Prescott computer with an ATI x850xt card. I could not even playback video at 1080p resolution because the CPU/GPU combination was too slow! Think about it. ;-)

[RandomASCII 5]

So a Pentium 4 2.8 GHz, and some AGP graphics card?

 

One of the fastest AGP graphics card ever released was the ATI RADEON 4670. But this card is still easily more than $100. Also it is crap compared to today's standards:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+4670&id=12

 

I once had a custom built P4 - Prescott computer with an ATI x850xt card. I could not even playback video at 1080p resolution because the CPU/GPU combination was too slow! Think about it. ;-)

It also has PCI slots. Is it not possible to use a PCI card instead?

[AHrubik 5]

Would you please confirm for me if this is your computer?http://panam.gateway.com/s//PC/5200Series/1008437/1008437nv.shtml

[Terex 108]

It also has PCI slots. Is it not possible to use a PCI card instead?

 

No. Don't do it. PCI is slower than AGP.

[AHrubik 5]

No. Don't do it. PCI is slower than AGP.

 

If his computer is what I was able to dig up he might have other options.http://panam.gateway.com/s//PC/5200Series/1008437/1008437nv.shtml

[InsaneJ 561]

A Pentium 4 based computer is not worth upgrading. No matter what you do with it, it won't matter for playing Minecraft. It will never run smooth on that system. Sorry :B

[RandomASCII 5]

If his computer is what I was able to dig up he might have other options.http://panam.gateway.com/s//PC/5200Series/1008437/1008437nv.shtml

Yes, but mine has a 160GB hard drive isntead of an 80GB one. I also added 2GB of RAM, but I already said that. I also posted a link to the specifications, but this is actually a better list of them.

[RandomASCII 5]

A Pentium 4 based computer is not worth upgrading. No matter what you do with it, it won't matter for playing Minecraft. It will never run smooth on that system. Sorry :B

I don't think it's impossible since I can run vanilla at just under 30fps. Though, that's with the render distence set to four chunks and all other graphical settings at minimal.

[RandomASCII 5]

A quick search on wallmart and they have a windows 7 refurbished dell with 4 GB for 150 bucks. Is 10 times better than  a 10 year old computer with the most expensive Video card.

Sorry I never replied to your post, I kind of missed if :/

 

Anyway, all the midrange computers at my local Wal Mart are not nearly that cheap. The cheapest thing with better specs than a Chromebook I saw was $350. Though, I don't want to spend that much more for a quick fix because the setup I'm saving up for is much higher end than that. That's why I'd rather spend ~$100 for a graphics card that can at least break 30fps on minimal settings than a whole new computer. I would never even touch a Dell computer anyway because I've had terrible experience with Dell computers. 

[Terex 108]

Well obviously you can buy one of the fastest AGP cards ever made for some $100 and that should be OK for you to play minecraft even up to medium settings (and modded on minimum settings). However, is it worth it in the long run? Do you only ever intend to play minecraft? Do you not intend to watch high definition movies? Do you not intend to use graphics (e.g. photoshop) or movie/music editing software? Mind you, even internet browsing and watching youtube videos will suffer. In other words, is the PC only intended for minecraft and possibly some word processing?  If yes, then sure buy an overpriced outdated videocard. However, if you have any desire to do anything else with the PC, then hold on and save up more money for a better rig. It's not that hard to do