Mobs and Damage Overhaul

[JDCollie 66]

I was going to post this in the "Big List of Mobs" thread, but it expanded beyond that, so I decided ot make a new thread.

My suggestion consists of two parts, Mob Overhaul, and Damage changes. They go hand in hand, so I'll explain how each would apply to the mobs I'm discussing.

Damage Changes

Why on earth would punching a zombie with dirt hurt it? Why would slapping a Skeleton with an chicken egg in your hand be anything but insulting? Damage should based on a combination of the item you are using and the target you are attacking. I'll explain this further in a moment.

Damage Types:

Blades: Inflict cutting or slashing wounds. Includes swords (obviously), shovels (because smart minecrafters hit with the edge of the shovel blade ), hoes, axes, and anything else with a cutting edge that does not fall in the Puncture class. Can get 'stuck' in some foes (I.E., the weapon is removed from the player's inventory and placed in the mob's inventory. Will be dropped when the mob is killed. Any 'stuck' items are lost if the mob is allowed to despawn.)

Puncture: Pokes holes in stuff. Includes arrows, javelins, sticks (they are stout sticks), chisels, pickaxes, and anything else that would puncture a foe. Also suffer from the 'stuck' mechanic.

Blunt: Items used in a "Hulk SMASH" manner. Includes heavy items such as logs, hammers, metal ingots, etc. Damage is based upon weight and crushing surface area. (Stone blocks would not be the ultimate blunt weapon however, as they are too large to effectively wield as a weapon, for the sake of balance)

Fire: Stuff that sets things on fire, or inflicts burning damage. Seriously, getting slapped by a burning torch would not be fun. Includes torches and very hot items (go smack a zombie with liquid tin and see how he likes it) Inflicts a damage over time effect.

Bleed: Not a direct damage type, but the result of living organisms being wounded by blades or puncture items; causes damage over time.

Everything else: While most items could technically fall in the blunt category, punching a zombie with a rose isn't going to do anything other than make other minecrafters wonder if you have necrophiliac tendencies. Subsequently, any items not categorized as a weapon have a base damage of ZERO and only provide pushback. This includes Steve's barehanded 'punch'.

Mob Overhaul

There are lots of mobs we would like added to TerraFirmaCraft, but there are enough problems with the existing mobs I think should be covered first.

Mobs currently exhibit Vanilla behavior. That is fine an all, but doesn't really fit in TFC. Mobs should behave in a manager tailored more to each species, rather than the slightly tweaked group AI they currently use.

---

Zombies:

Zombies are lumbering undead, who's only goal is to eat your soft and nubile minecrafter flesh. They inflict blunt damage.

Behavior changes: Zombies should not prioritize avoiding sunlight over killing the player. Punching zombies

Blades: Zombies should take siginificant damage from bladed items. Low chance of getting stuck, but still possible.

Puncture: Do more damage than blunt items, but only marginally. Moderately high chance to get stuck.

Blunt: Do very little damage, but provide significant pushback.

Fire: Fire does normal damage to zombies, but they do not react to it. (no nerves, no pain)

Bleed: Obviously zombies would be immune to any potential bleed effects.

---

Skeletons:

Composed of reanimated bones, skeletons are comparatively light, and have no woundable flesh. Their arrows cause puncture damage.

Behavior Changes: Hostile to all non-undead mobs. Should attempt to maintain a minimum range in combat, rather than just approaching the target. Unlike the zombie, skeletons should still prioritize staying out of the sun.

Blades: Minimum damage (1/2 heart per hit). Has a chance to get the weapon stuck.

Puncture: Same damage as blades, but with a much higher chance of getting the weapon stuck.

Blunt: Devastating damage (x3 modifier), and very high pushback (remember, without flesh, skeletons are much lighter than the player or zombies) Maces and hammers have a small chance to outright shatter the skeleton (instant kill).

Fire: No damage. (Sunlight would still damage skeletons by dissolving the dark magics animating, but it would not be fire damage proper.)

Bleed: They have no blood, and thus will not bleed.

---

Spiders:

With a chitinous exoskeleton and living flesh and blood, most weapons will at least decent damage against spiders. Their attacks inflict puncture damage with a chance to poison/bleed the player.

Behavior changes: Spiders should prefer elevated locations during the day, especially trees. They should also have faster walking speed treat all other non-spider mobs with hostility, regardless of the time of day.

Blades: Normal damage. High chance to cause bleed effects.

Puncture: High damage (x2 modifier), high chance to get stuck. Low bleed chance.

Blunt: High damage (x2 modifier)

Fire: Normal damage. Spiders will stop targeting the player when on fire and flee for water.

Bleed: Due to the way spiders use their cardiovascular system to move their limbs, any bleed effects last until the spider dies from them.

---

Creepers:

Creepers make absolutely no sense in their current form. In order to have them fit in better without removing them, I propose the following:

Creepers are fungal hive creatures that form and protect 'nests'. They are wildly hostile to any intruders, and will defend their hives with their lives. They stay in their nests during the day, but will go out to hunt at night.

Behavior changes: Creepers are predatory and territorial. They are hostile to any non-creeper mobs (or players) they encounter. They only explode when they are fighting an enemy in the nest area and are near death. They do not explode when hunting in the wild, even if near death. Creeper explosions do not hurt other creepers, nor do they damage the blocks that compose the nest. If a creeper is seriously wounded while hunting, they will attempt to retreat to their nest. They attack with a biting attack that inflicts blade damage and can poison their targets.

Blades: Normal damage,

Puncture: Normal damage.

Blunt: Normal damage.

Fire: Normal damage, very low chance to cause the creeper to explode on each damage tick. Causes the creeper to stop targeting the player and search for water.

Bleed: Creepers do not have cardiovascular systems in the same way we do, and are not susceptible to bleed or poison effects.

---

Endermen:

Extraplanar entities that only enter our reality on occasion, they are highly resistant to normal weapons.

Behavior Changes: None. Will occasionally 'kidnap' mobs by grabbing them and teleporting them.

Blades: Low Damage (x1/2 modifier), no chance to get stuck.

Puncture: Low damage (x1/2 modifier), no chance to get stuck.

Blunt: Minimum damage (x1/2 modifier)

Fire: Very high damage (x3 normal damage). Enrages the enderman, causing him to teleport more frequently and move more quickly. Endermen will not seek water when on fire.

Bleed: Endermen do not bleed, but foreign substances quickly corrupt their corporeal form, making poisons devastating to them.

---

Slimes:

Slimes are pretty much unchanged, other than contact with a slime of any size will inflict a minor (or major, depending on how big the slime was and whether the player was wearing armor at the time) bleed effect due to their acidic composition. Contact with simes also degrades weapon and armor durability at a higher rate. Any item that gets 'stuck' in a slime will lose 1 durability per second until the slime is killed or the item is destroyed.

Slimes take massive damage from water, which dissolves them.

Behavior Changes: None.

Blades: Normal damage, very high chance to get stuck.

Puncture: No damage, 100% chance to get stuck.

Blunt: Low damage. Moderate chance to get stuck.

Fire: Low damage (x1/2 damage), but causes the slime to move randomly until the fire burns out.

Bleed: Slimes cannot bleed.

---

Neutral Mobs:

Same for all neutral mobs except chickens. Chickens will die in one blow from any weapon except fire.

Blades: Normal damage, high chance to cause bleed effect.

Puncture: Normal damage. 100% to cause bleed effect.

Blunt: Low Damage (x1/2 damage), chance to daze, causing them to walk slowly and randomly, rather than fleeing.

Fire: normal damage, causes mob to seek any nearby water.

Bleed: Normal damage and duration.

---

Nether Mobs:

I won't include these, as I don't even know if the Nether is a part of TFC.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

punching a zombie with a rose isn't going to do anything other than make other minecrafters wonder if you have necrophiliac tendencies

This is my new sig, and I love you.

Now.. I love this idea. I would +1 it all day if I could.

...But.

I think it may be just a bit too much. Too much complication, too much code, too much headache fuel for bioxx. You want to see a battle system that works like this? Come play D&D 3.5e with me sometime. It's the terrafirmacraft of tabletop RPGs.

[JDCollie 66]

This is my new sig, and I love you.

Now.. I love this idea. I would +1 it all day if I could.

...But.

I think it may be just a bit too much. Too much complication, too much code, too much headache fuel for bioxx. You want to see a battle system that works like this? Come play D&D 3.5e with me sometime. It's the terrafirmacraft of tabletop RPGs.

It's true, this represents a complete overhaul of the combat system. The only reason I suggested in the first place is that the vanilla system is so bad.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

It's true, this represents a complete overhaul of the combat system. The only reason I suggested in the first place is that the vanilla system is so bad.

Yes it is, but I think the best that can be done with it at the moment is just having several weapons that deal different amounts of regular plain old damage to different mobs, as discussed in the more weapons thread.

You have come up with one of those rare ideas that are actually too good, it would seem.

[JDCollie 66]

Yes it is, but I think the best that can be done with it at the moment is just having several weapons that deal different amounts of regular plain old damage to different mobs, as discussed in the more weapons thread.

You have come up with one of those rare ideas that are actually too good, it would seem.

Ah well, maybe someday when TFC is more fleshed out then, eh? One can always hope

[SeanyGlass 14]

1+.

So much detail, I don't really think anything needs to be added beyond this...

[Peffern 94]

I agree with eternal on all counts, although I would prefer my *tendencies* to be towards skeletons instead of zombies. However there are three things missing here.

Squids:

Blades: squids have soft flesh so blades are fairly effective (x1.5 modifier)

Puncture: puncture wound go very deep, causing squids to bleed.

Blunt, considering squids live underwater and they are very squishy(squidshy?) blunt gets a 1/2x modifier.

Fire: N/A for obvious reasons.

Bleed: normal.

Behavior changes: none.

Everything has 50% chance to get stuck.

Wolves.

Behavior changes: as now, wolves hunt in packs. They will attack any animals they see, with a fondness for domesticated(recently bred) animals.

All attacks do normal damage.

Players:

With no armor, all attacks do normal damage.

Depending on where the attack hits, different armor pieces come into play. (hitting a player in the head with a chest plate on will not be blocked.

For anything except helmets, blade and puncture attacks have an 80% chance of getting a x0 modifier. However, they still damage the armor. Blunt attacks still do normal damage and damage the armor. For helmets, the x0 mod chance is reduced to 50% for blades and 10% for puncture. Armor blocks bleed effects. Armor does not block fire.

[JDCollie 66]

-snip-

I'm not a huge fan of probability effects on armor, but I love the idea of functional armor-based hitboxes. Having a helmet on shouldn't protect you from getting stabbed in the ass.

[letalhell 8]

I like it, It doesn't have too be so massive as you suggest but I guess this would be cool, perhaps just add a damage for every item. And some special items like torches add the flame effect.

[valkupo 17]

Very interesting.

I tried thinking really hard, but I can't come up with anything to critique or add other than the coding difficulty/quantity EternalUndeath already pointed out. I wish I had something to say other than "I really like the idea", but you obviously fleshed out this idea fairly thoroughly.

[daveris 6]

i really like this idea and considering this is a complete overhaul mod this would be interesting however it should be done after hes finished ironing out the current things in the mod

[Lycheborne 37]

let me slap u with rose bush....bet it hurts like hell....xD

i could punch you with nothing at all and still hurt you xD

you my thinkin into this to much, i would not want to change to empty hands just to donkey punch some zombie with wheat....i got things to do

on to the subject that matters tho...i like mobs having weaknesses and such....other than the usual spam click kills....:still should work tho, just takes longer"

Also your behindmien is showing

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

just to donkey punch some zombie

...

That word you are using... I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Jivix 21]

Zombies already prioritize hitting the player over being in the shade. As for the suggestion, imo it's a little too powerful considering most of the items you're giving special attributes to don't have durability bars, and so could be used as weapons for eternity.

[SeanyGlass 14]

any items not categorized as a weapon have a base damage of ZERO and only provide pushback. This includes Steve's barehanded 'punch'.

Why wouldn't Steve's punch do any damage? You can kill somebody by beating them to death, and have you every heard of martial arts?

[JDCollie 66]

Why wouldn't Steve's punch do any damage? You can kill somebody by beating them to death, and have you every heard of martial arts?

First, Steve is not a martial artist; no five finger death punch for you. Second, considering that I am proposing that it would be exceptionally difficult to beat a zombie to re-death with a giant ball of steel on a stick, why would your fists be even slightly effective?

[JDCollie 66]

Zombies already prioritize hitting the player over being in the shade. As for the suggestion, imo it's a little too powerful considering most of the items you're giving special attributes to don't have durability bars, and so could be used as weapons for eternity.

Perhaps using a torch as a weapon should consume it then?

[slackgiver 13]

Playing minecraft for its combat system is like playing Call of Duty for its side scrolling elements.

[dabman10 34]

Another mechanic that would be cool to add would be to make biomes have varying levels of evil. For example, you could have a 'peaceful' forest that rarely spawns any mobs, or a 'haunted' forest that spawns quite a few, or they are stronger.

[valkupo 17]

Playing minecraft for its combat system is like playing Call of Duty for its side scrolling elements.

Minecraft has combat, Call of Duty does not have side scrolling (in the gaming meaning of the phrase). Your analogy is flawed.

Regardless, that is no reason to not try and make it more interesting. This mod has weapons. There will be combat. There is no harm in trying to make it require you to think about what you make/use.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Playing minecraft for its combat system is like playing Duke Nukem for its story elements.

fix'd

[fred da kiko 28]

it would be nice to see a more sensible mob spawning mechanic. mobs appearing out of nowhere when it gets dark doesn't make sense. it's a pain when you're trying to get started and it's just bothersome when you've got things going. mob nests would make more sense. they could work like dungeons, only above ground with specific rewards. maybe nests could be created, so you would have to go out and raid nests so that your village isn't overrun. i also like the idea of specific weapons working better on mobs, it would give a reason for specialized kits or groups of people having different weapons.

[valkupo 17]

fix'd

... Alright. I can accept defeat to that.

it would be nice to see a more sensible mob spawning mechanic. mobs appearing out of nowhere when it gets dark doesn't make sense. it's a pain when you're trying to get started and it's just bothersome when you've got things going. mob nests would make more sense. they could work like dungeons, only above ground with specific rewards. maybe nests could be created, so you would have to go out and raid nests so that your village isn't overrun. i also like the idea of specific weapons working better on mobs, it would give a reason for specialized kits or groups of people having different weapons.

Mob nests have been suggested already, and it had a fairly positive response from one of the TFC staff... Dunk I think? They are planning something with mobs and mob spawning, but it sounded like agriculture was going to be fleshed out first before they make any official work on it. I like JDCollie's idea because it involves things that effect interaction between the mobs and player. It was an angle that was fairly neglected from the previous discussions. I like the nests idea as well, but the damage overhaul might be a better way to start off.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Hello, I am Dunk.

I am currently in charge of mobs and mob-related updates. I have worked extensively in this area, (damage types, mob behaviours etc, but its on hold atm)

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

Playing minecraft for its combat system is like playing Call of Duty for its side scrolling elements.

this is exactly why we need to change the combat mechanics to make them more enjoyable