Latest Changes to Chests...

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Alright fine dunk, it's not my mod. But I'm trusting you not to fuck up! ...no pressure .

oh wait a minute, I'M not making this change, I'm just privy to some knowledge about what Bioxx is doing.

[Treyflix 277]

I know haha. When I said "you" I meant "him". I'm really not concerned about it. Bioxx and you have earned my trust many times over with adding seemingly impossible/stupid ideas in and making them awesome.

So meh, like I say, I trust yah .

[TheBlindPeople 31]

Yes, omg yes! More realism, better simulation! All games are simulations, and Minecraft is an especially good simulation that happens to have lots of room for improvement. If you don't like simulation or realism why not go play industrial craft and get some magical teleporting pipes to carry all your gear crafted from "recycled" dirt? There are probably thousands of Minecraft mods that aren't TFC that ignore realism and simulation that you could go patronize.

It's bad simulation that a player can carry literally tons of worthless dirt and stone at once. Limiting the player's carrying capacity can be replaced by implementing solutions, like pack animals, wagons, railcarts, villager slaves, barges or other logistical infrastructure. I imagine limiting player carrying capacity might also be one of the mechanisms that will help encourage economic activities on servers, along with scarcity and sparsity.

You seem to have a major yet simple misunderstanding of the whole situation.

This. is. a. game.

Everything that makes this fun, everything that draws us in, has little to do with realism and simulation accuracy. The only aspect that requires anything tied to the real world is providing a context for everything going on. Saying "This block is dirt" provides some basic assumptions for players so they get a rough idea of what is going on. This does not mean the 'block of dirt' needs to have anything closely resembling realistic dirt behavior.

We are attracted to this because it provides a different difficulty curve from normal Minecraft. Things are more complicated, resources are more difficult to gain and advancing is slower. It's just as legimitate of a curve as Vanilla, or mods where resource gain grows exponentially. TFC could even be compared to mods that introduce fantasy metals with their own trees of advancement, only this mod uses real-world metal names to assume some basic properties about said metals. It has no obligation to be tied to real-life further than this familiarity.

[Treyflix 277]

I think you said what i meant really well TBP, thanks!

[aeroc 51]

You seem to have a major yet simple misunderstanding of the whole situation.

This. is. a. game.

Please show me where I said Minecraft/TFC. wasn't. a. game.

Everything that makes this fun, everything that draws us in, has little to do with realism and simulation accuracy.

I am arguing the opposite. The better the game is at suspending your disbelief in this fantasy setting the more fun it is. Adding difficulty and complexity simply isn't enough. Imagine if you could put dirt into a forge and it would output wooden tools or golden apples (like industrialcraft's recyclers), that wouldn't take anything away from TFC for you? What if dirt fell upwards into the sky? What if the game was filled with non-sense recipes or behaviors like that?

The only aspect that requires anything tied to the real world is providing a context for everything going on. Saying "This block is dirt" provides some basic assumptions for players so they get a rough idea of what is going on. This does not mean the 'block of dirt' needs to have anything closely resembling realistic dirt behavior.

We are attracted to this because it provides a different difficulty curve from normal Minecraft. Things are more complicated, resources are more difficult to gain and advancing is slower. It's just as legimitate of a curve as Vanilla, or mods where resource gain grows exponentially. TFC could even be compared to mods that introduce fantasy metals with their own trees of advancement, only this mod uses real-world metal names to assume some basic properties about said metals. It has no obligation to be tied to real-life further than this familiarity.

This sounds like a strawman argument to me, I never argued for some kind of obligation to complete and total real-life simulation/realism. I argued for more and better simulation/realism and that more realistic backpack weights is a good thing. The only argument Treyflix made against realistic backpack weight was that this isn't a simulator, which it is, all games are. If you have some arguments why backpack weights shouldn't be realistic I'd love to hear them.

[Azdoine 218]

No, the real argument against realistic backpack weights is that it would be completely fucking unplayable.

Think of all the items that Steve would need for one productive day of work in TFC.

Tools. Armor. Food. Building materials.

Now go and collect the same equipment in REAL LIFE, put it in your backpack, and take a 20 minute walk.

Realism for the sake of realism is a really fucking bad way to make a game.

[Ozymal 3]

Realism for the sake of realism does suck. I agree. But TFC isn't made that way. It's adding balances and creating plausible suspensions of reality.

I don't want to put words into aeroc's mouth, but I think aeroc is saying a good balance of tools/resources and an avenue toward the suspension of belief makes for great realism and a great game.

Having a nerfed backpack that makes chest completely irrelevant is neither.

[PizzaSHARK! 13]

No, the real argument against realistic backpack weights is that it would be completely fucking unplayable.

Think of all the items that Steve would need for one productive day of work in TFC.

Tools. Armor. Food. Building materials.

Now go and collect the same equipment in REAL LIFE, put it in your backpack, and take a 20 minute walk.

Realism for the sake of realism is a really fucking bad way to make a game.

That's what chests are for. Better equipment could lead to better carrying capacity.

It'd encourage players to plan and think rather than running around with everything they need.

[renadi 258]

That's what chests are for. Better equipment could lead to better carrying capacity.

It'd encourage players to plan and think rather than running around with everything they need.

This is exactly what I'm thinking, Yes, it would be much harder to have those limits, but if we add ways to progress and grow it'd be a much deeper system in the end which doesn't end up with us frustrated and whining about realism.

It would give more reason to use the transportation methods in the game(and hopefully more that will be added at a later date), and would be a way to measure a character's progress in the world, initially you don't need the full inventories worth of items anyway, so setting a size limitation at the beginning could if done properly have no negative effect, so long as ways are provided to surpass the initial limit.

[redundantusage 330]

Wooden hand carts would help quite a bit if personal inventory takes an intense hit. This has been suggested before and still seems like a viable idea based on upcoming weight/size requirements.

[Sushiy (aka Kwink007) 103]

I also like it...but i guess i already stated that:DD

introducing sth like The Backpack-mod is what could balance it out!! in the beginning you only have bags for small things and later maybe even sth like a carryable rack for tools and other large stuff!!! that'd be nice...

[Azdoine 218]

I'm gonna put it bluntly:

It isn't going to become easier to carry items around.

It may become harder, but not for the sake of realism. A truly realistic inventory would just be retarded, especially given that Steve can only move building materials in by the cubic meter.

[redundantusage 330]

While I agree things won't get easier, if they scale back inventory to just shy of god awful and provide a means in game of getting better storage, such as bags and whatnot, it provides the best of both worlds.

An example someone else gave was that you start with just your hotbar. Then you'd upgrade this by making a backpack (adds a row of storage that can handle stuff that is large/heavy) and upgrade the backpack with extended pouches (a second row which holds medium or lower)

Provides progression, something to work towards, and gives a touch more realism to the inventory without outright crippling it permanently/completely.

[Azdoine 218]

We should have more than just backpacks.

Belt pouches, shoulder bags, pockets, etc.

Actually, that sounds really fucking awesome. Making your carrying case out of a tougher material would let you carry heavier and bulkier items.

Someone want to throw together a suggestion topic about this?

[ECC 508]

K, working on it. Want to go as far as saying your weapon and pack(s) displays on your body?

[TheBlindPeople 31]

Not gonna quote that because both this forum software isn't made for that and it's a formatting nightmare for conversations.

I will still dispute your love for simulations and straight up say they are not games. But ultimately the definitions of both are somewhat open to interpretation with all sorts of artsy games breaking such classifications. So to really get onto this we would have to define what we consider each term to mean.

Games to me are experiences. Much how movies don't necessarily have to be entertaining to provide value to deep thoughtful films, games don't necessarily have to be fun. The interactivity of games allows players to fulfill an experience, whether this is the experience of a soldier on the front line of WWII or the meditative busywork of minigames. Even not necessarily fun experiences in artsy games. It's just an advancement in storytelling, going from observing an experience to fulfilling it.

Simulation is an odd term, because simulating small parts of something else doesn't necessarily make something that we would consider a simulation. A game having gravity doesn't make it a simulation, especially when gravity works totally differently. The term Simulation seems to have specific intents and cannotations when it comes to games. These seem to have focuses on accuracy, where games that simulate gravity don't really care for accuracy. One could argue that trying to fulfill a specific experience is trying to simulate it asaccurately as possible and I could sorta go along with that. It's still a really awkward broad term to use, and I really doubt you had this sort of intent.

The TFC experience so far, dealing with intended difficult systems, sparse resources and environmental hazards so you don't die, would go fine with some form of limited inventory. But the intended experience seems to be 'Oh, heading out logging, better put away my pick and take my axe with me for more space' and not 'well shit, getting three different types of gems cheated me out of three stacks of cobble on this mining trip.' Inventory management is funky to manage, especially in this game where we have a ton of seperate stacks of esources we can't just go out and get.