New tool: The wedge

[yubyub96 68]

Well first i have to say that im not a native english speaker so please excuse any grammar mistake,also about the name of the tool, im not entirely sure thats the name i want but i'll explain that in a sec.

The Wedge

Its function will be to make raw stone mining a bit easier, the wedge is like a chisel but smaller and you will need more than just one to get a piece of raw stone.

The plan for it will go a bit like this:

And once its done in the anvil it will give you a set of mining wedges, they will work in the following way: you must have a hammer in your inventory and when you find a bit of stone that is with at least 3 of its sides free, some examples of blocks apt for the wedge,the ones with a wooden button are the block you want to take, the one with the stone one is impossible to take

This will make raw stone gathering still a bit of a challenge.

Now for the actual placement of the wedges i suggest a new tool, the wooden hammer or a mallet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mallet)this will be made with a stick bellow a block of wood(i leave this open to discussion).

Now this new tool will have to be on your hotbar to work with the wedges, first you place the wedges, just like if you were placing a lever or a button, and then you take the mallet and hit it wiht the right-button until they are completely stuck on the stone,this will be made with a model for wedges around the corners, like this:

After this you will get the stone block.

[killster550 401]

an interesting fact about wedges, the egyptians used them to get their blocks for the pyramids, just hammer a couple of em in the stone in the right shape, pour water on it, they expand, rock cracks, and voila, one pure bigass stone.

on a gameplay aspect, the idea seems nice but the workout is sloppy, they should work kind of like if you hammer em into the ground and actually pour water on them, they break some blocks in a certain direction (as i'd see them be used)

[yubyub96 68]

an interesting fact about wedges, the egyptians used them to get their blocks for the pyramids, just hammer a couple of em in the stone in the right shape, pour water on it, they expand, rock cracks, and voila, one pure bigass stone.

on a gameplay aspect, the idea seems nice but the workout is sloppy, they should work kind of like if you hammer em into the ground and actually pour water on them, they break some blocks in a certain direction (as i'd see them be used)

Yeah i will edit the post and make a clearer statement of how do you use them.

How do you mean they pour water? they threw a bucket of water? or pressurized water? how does that works?

[puxapuak 232]

Isn't this sort of the idea already behind the chisel though? I mean if you have a metal chisel and hammer, you basically have a wedge... so maybe not introducing a new item, but just something else the chisel does but requiring more than one in your inventory. Interesting idea for a mechanic though.

[yubyub96 68]

Isn't this sort of the idea already behind the chisel though? I mean if you have a metal chisel and hammer, you basically have a wedge... so maybe not introducing a new item, but just something else the chisel does but requiring more than one in your inventory. Interesting idea for a mechanic though.

Yeah pretty much but chisels have a wooden part and are just one, you need at leas 2 for each side attached to the stone, and the have to be made entirely of metal.

[killster550 401]

Yeah i will edit the post and make a clearer statement of how do you use them.

How do you mean they pour water? they threw a bucket of water? or pressurized water? how does that works?

yea, egyptians had pressurized water naah, they just threw a bucket of water on a wooden wedge, because everything is so dry there the ood soaks it up and expands incredibly, (could be a limiter on the object, the effect based on humidity)

[ECC 508]

source or it didnt happen ;P

no really, this kind of stuff I like learning about

[killster550 401]

direct copy-pasta from a link but yea, its suggested that it wouldnt be strong enough, but like it says, there is no other way for blocks that size to be produced in such a fast manner ;D

Quarrying with ancient tools was hard work. Even the relatively soft lime stone was difficult to cut with Old Kingdom copper saws, and chisels and hard stone like granite was worked with diabase - often called dolerite - hammerstones. Holes were cut into the rock, wooden wedges driven into the slots and moistened. The expanding wood cracked the rock. Doubt has been cast on wood being strong enough for the purpose, but no alternative theories for pharaonic stone extraction have been proposed.

Granite quarries at Aswan

Source: Michel Audrain

The detached slabs were dragged to the riverside, loaded on barges, and shipped downriver.

Only temples and tombs were built in lasting stone. Houses and even royal palaces were constructed with adobe bricks and have largely disappeared. But even stone structures have decayed or were used as quarries.

http://www.reshafim....s/stonework.htm

[yubyub96 68]

yea, egyptians had pressurized water naah, they just threw a bucket of water on a wooden wedge, because everything is so dry there the ood soaks it up and expands incredibly, (could be a limiter on the object, the effect based on humidity)

Thanks for the information.

About pressurized water, the egyptians might not have it, but the greeks and one of the civilizations on whats now Turkey had pumps to drain out all the water from their ships and later on to shoot people with greek fire.So i thought that the egyptians may have that tech as well.

[killster550 401]

well, reading my previous post, i think it should only break STONE blocks of course, and only solid, natural stone in about a 5x4 radius, but they'd need manual watering at the same time (making it a bit of a tedious chore) because you need to keep the water level up (or if the permadamage thread gets approved, it could be affected by that)

what one would have to do is uncover the size of stone he wants to get rid off, and hammer the weges in a square on the top, (1 on each corner would one want a full block, one on the rear corners would one want to pop a edge block) and on a edge block ( with blocks i mean my 5x4, edge block = a 5x4 of stone, no block in between, bordering nothing but air on one or more sides) one would need to hammer a few wedges into the sides,

if you dont have an edge blcok but want to make a 5x5 hole in the ground, one would need to have some manner of getting the 5x4 block OUT of the ground, it cant just POP, the egyptians basically used my edge block bit and used a primitive form of cargo belts operated by sand and human labor to move these blocks around (including pyramid building) perhaps we could make use of our gravity mechanic to make sure that you need a sloped bottom for the 5x4 to slide out off before it pops

(this isnt supposed to be an easy tool to use, but a team based pro building block: 1 guy hammers the wedges, 1 guy gets/waters the wedges, and 1 guy makes sure the 5x4 can slide out properly, if all conditions are met, it pops.

(the shapes and rules are all debatable, i just thought a 5x4 would seem correct, they cant be absolutely square in shape,

[splatman1981 44]

modern methods for extracting granite, limestone, and marble (all in very large chunks, something like 6 x 12 x 12 feet) is to drill holes into the surface of the rock and fill those holes with expanding grout. as the grout dries it gets larger and literally pushes the massive stone out and away from the remaining mountain.

as far as tfc and raw stone are concerned, perhaps we dont need a new item. instead use the already existing hammer and chisel method, but reversed, use the hammer on the stone with a chisel in the hotbar.

[killster550 401]

splat, your grout is basically a inverted wedge from the olden days

[killster550 401]

bump because given the new woodcrafting, perhaps a wedge like i depicted could be made via chiselling a wood block in a downward, V shaped wedge (if you look at the side), although you gotta make it unsensitive given the 512 new options, so anything in a downward V shape and activated by a hammer (just an example) turns into a wedge block

[yubyub96 68]

bump because given the new woodcrafting, perhaps a wedge like i depicted could be made via chiselling a wood block in a downward, V shaped wedge (if you look at the side), although you gotta make it unsensitive given the 512 new options, so anything in a downward V shape and activated by a hammer (just an example) turns into a wedge block

Nice idea but wouldnt it take lots of wood?

[Blade Avuari 25]

I think it should still just be be made using normal crafting, maybe with a plank and a chisel in the crafting makes three wedges.

[yubyub96 68]

I think it should still just be be made using normal crafting, maybe with a plank and a chisel in the crafting makes three wedges.

im sorry but i dont see your logic? also, the devs prefer to stay away from the mighty crafting table, its just way too easy to craft things on that one, in fact, i wish that in the near future they remove the need of the crafting table as we know it.

[transcengopher 349]

Just plank and chisel won't require crafting table. And I don't see what's wrong with it. Don't you use the table for building stuff IRL yourself?

[ECC 508]

'Don't you use the table for building stuff IRL yourself?' Nope, I pick a spot on the floor, bed, couch, in the dirt, ANYWHERE and take apart/put together whatever it is. Honestly, the only reason that mechanic is not in game is because of a spiteful word called 'balance'

[renadi 258]

I don't think there's any balance to be concerned about in an item that's pretty much the first thing you get and you can carry around with you everywhere.

[ECC 508]

true, but thats not how its seen. it takes inventory either way, costs enough work to cut a tree(which is a LOT of work when on a old sever map) and generally acts to keep new players from immediately jumping in dagger swinging. its a stopgap item if i am using the term correctly.

[transcengopher 349]

'Don't you use the table for building stuff IRL yourself?' Nope, I pick a spot on the floor, bed, couch, in the dirt, ANYWHERE and take apart/put together whatever it is. Honestly, the only reason that mechanic is not in game is because of a spiteful word called 'balance'

This represented by 2x2 crafting space. And workbench is for more complicated crafts. Durable flat surface with all tools needed.

[ECC 508]

except I have taken apart and put together a grandfather clock on the spot. logically, you dont NEED the workbench, but it helps. specially if it has little cups for screws... but its not needed.

[transcengopher 349]

In minecraft you kinda putting together grandfather clocks. Machine with extendable arm? Diode? Machine that can fire arrows at rapid succession or throw items? No? Still not complicated enough?

[ECC 508]

Honestly, not really complicated. I could sit in the grass and do the same stuff I do at a table. COULD, not SHOULD.

on an off note, why am I arguing? I dont think either of us will win... not for a long while

[Blade Avuari 25]

I feel like the winner is going to be the person who does not get banned next year due to the admins suddenly becoming strict in the future.

Also, I just realized that wood can be chiselded now...

Lastly, this one is on-topic, what if the wedges were made via widdling?