Balancing the Chisel

[Lokekar 2]

The chisel needs a bit of balancing. As it stands I can "mine" endlessly with a chisel. The problem really is that a right click with the chisel does not take away from it durability. Which means to go hunting for ore early on I make and use a chisel since I can mine endlessly with it. I still need the pick to collect the ore, but I only need one and I can use it exclusively for mining ore. The hammer used with the chisel has the same problem. That is not conducive to inevitability or game-play.

I suppose this could be a bug, but as I was thinking about it I realized that the harder the rock type the more it should take away from the durability. So chiseling granite will take away more durability than chiseling wood or a sedimentary rock. As it stands a player that wants to be a stone carver on a server only needs a single chisel and hammer, which hardly makes them fully integrated into an economy. Needing to get more chisels (and hammers) as they use and wear out will add a way in which they need other professions. You could make it take longer, ie have to hold down to chisel something, but that would make something that can already be tedious even more so.

Personally I would prefer if chisels perhaps had twice as much durability as current. Stone takes two-four(?) in detail mode, making a bricked block takes 2-3, slabs would take 20-45, and stairs would take 100. Wood would take half as much and be similar to how making planks takes more durability away for harder wood types. I do not favor in the case of using the slabbing or chair modes using a straight multiplier, ie to slab it should take 64 to slab one side of a block, or in the case of a stair 138, as the stone carver would actually be able to cut along the edges and remove a larger chunk and not have to cut out in the small increments available to us if we chiseled them out in detail mode. Since you can detail blocks that have been slabbed or made into stairs it would allow carvers a way to speed up the process and save some on chisels.

About the hammer since I mentioned it already, it should require a metal hammer to work with a chisel, or make a stiff penalty for using a stone hammer, like it has a high chance of breaking. I would love to add possible damage done when using a stone hammer, stone chips breaking off and flying around the work place, but that would probably be overkill.

Naturally the numbers are a bit arbitrary and would need some fleshing out and balancing for game-play.

TLDR: Right clicking with a chisel needs to take away from its durability, hammer in the hot bar too.

[Treyflix 277]

Yeh, I'm not sure why this has not been balanced yet...

+1

[ECC 508]

some balance is needed, but what you propose is entirely too much. It would effectively turn a super vein into literally nothing within only one play week because what you propose it to only give the chisel 3 hits in extreme cases. I would much rather have a second counter on the chisel to tally percents of a hit and once it reaches/rolls over the max, it simply takes form the durability.

[Biodigious 211]

First, we should probably determine how many blocks would be fully removed when detailing (512 uses) with a t0 chisel; I'm just using 10 blocks as an example. So, 10 blocks × 512 little detailed pieces is 5120 total uses₁. People won't usually remove anything close to the full 512 so the chisel will last for much longer than 10 blocks.

To counter anyone thinking they can still just chisel slab mine and only use 10 uses per block, an extra 256 uses₂ is taken off the chisel whenever it is used to remove the last bit of a block. This would only allow 20 blocks to be removed with t0 5120 use chisels.

I'd like to see each action of smoothing, slabbing and staring₃(Don't blink. Blink and you're dead.) only use one durability and that's what the above suggestions are based off of.

For the hammer, I don't think it needs to lose durability when chiseling. Half of chiseling is done with gentle little taps and it's only hitting a wooden handle.

Footnotes₄:

1. We should get such a large number because dunk, and hopefully Bioxx, apparently loves seeing chiseled creations and nobody likes using a tool up after only a few blocks.

2. Depending on the actual durability compared to a pickaxe's, this may or may not be necessary but was added as a just-in-case precaution.

3. I know the proper incorrect word would have been 'stairring' and the proper phrase would be 'making stairs' but I did it for the lulz.

4. Adding these 'reasoning why's into the text was making it a bit too crowded for my tastes, so I added footnotes.

[Lokekar 2]

some balance is needed, but what you propose is entirely too much. It would effectively turn a super vein into literally nothing within only one play week because what you propose it to only give the chisel 3 hits in extreme cases. I would much rather have a second counter on the chisel to tally percents of a hit and once it reaches/rolls over the max, it simply takes form the durability.

A low tier chisel could have few large scale uses. It is a relatively soft metal and don't last long in most other uses in TFC. Since we don't have a stone chisel the lowest tier metal one could be lower than other uses. As I said the numbers I suggested were more to get discussion going than saying they were difinitive. I expect Dunk and Bioxx will balance it to the correct feel for the mode, but I will point out that a stone axe can no longer cut down a full tree when there is not enough durability left in it.

First, we should probably determine how many blocks would be fully removed when detailing (512 uses) with a t0 chisel; I'm just using 10 blocks as an example. So, 10 blocks × 512 little detailed pieces is 5120 total uses₁. People won't usually remove anything close to the full 512 so the chisel will last for much longer than 10 blocks.

To counter anyone thinking they can still just chisel slab mine and only use 10 uses per block, an extra 256 uses₂ is taken off the chisel whenever it is used to remove the last bit of a block. This would only allow 20 blocks to be removed with t0 5120 use chisels.

I'd like to see each action of smoothing, slabbing and staring₃(Don't blink. Blink and you're dead.) only use one durability and that's what the above suggestions are based off of.

For the hammer, I don't think it needs to lose durability when chiseling. Half of chiseling is done with gentle little taps and it's only hitting a wooden handle.

Footnotes₄:

1. We should get such a large number because dunk, and hopefully Bioxx, apparently loves seeing chiseled creations and nobody likes using a tool up after only a few blocks.

2. Depending on the actual durability compared to a pickaxe's, this may or may not be necessary but was added as a just-in-case precaution.

3. I know the proper incorrect word would have been 'stairring' and the proper phrase would be 'making stairs' but I did it for the lulz.

4. Adding these 'reasoning why's into the text was making it a bit too crowded for my tastes, so I added footnotes.

Wood handled chisels actually have a metal shaft in them so the wood does not absorb the force of the blow, and the hammer hits that and not the wood, except for chisels for fine detail work perhaps. Many chisels also do not have a wooden handle at all, especially cold chisels or ones used to rough out stone in my experience. TFC does not have different types of chisels and I don't think that is necessary either.

When using the chisels I have seen the hammer head wear, and in extreme cases when the chisel and hammer are not cared for chips of metal have come flying off. Same thing happens to wedges used for splitting wood as well, which are solid metal incidentally, but the point I am trying to make is that even when working with wood the chisel and hammer both wear.

[EstebanLB 183]

Because it's an almost impossible feature to code in Minecraft

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

The chisel needs a bit of balancing. As it stands I can "mine" endlessly with a chisel. The problem really is that a right click with the chisel does not take away from it durability. Which means to go hunting for ore early on I make and use a chisel since I can mine endlessly with it. I still need the pick to collect the ore, but I only need one and I can use it exclusively for mining ore. The hammer used with the chisel has the same problem. That is not conducive to inevitability or game-play.

I suppose this could be a bug, but as I was thinking about it I realized that the harder the rock type the more it should take away from the durability. So chiseling granite will take away more durability than chiseling wood or a sedimentary rock. As it stands a player that wants to be a stone carver on a server only needs a single chisel and hammer, which hardly makes them fully integrated into an economy. Needing to get more chisels (and hammers) as they use and wear out will add a way in which they need other professions. You could make it take longer, ie have to hold down to chisel something, but that would make something that can already be tedious even more so.

Personally I would prefer if chisels perhaps had twice as much durability as current. Stone takes two-four(?) in detail mode, making a bricked block takes 2-3, slabs would take 20-45, and stairs would take 100. Wood would take half as much and be similar to how making planks takes more durability away for harder wood types. I do not favor in the case of using the slabbing or chair modes using a straight multiplier, ie to slab it should take 64 to slab one side of a block, or in the case of a stair 138, as the stone carver would actually be able to cut along the edges and remove a larger chunk and not have to cut out in the small increments available to us if we chiseled them out in detail mode. Since you can detail blocks that have been slabbed or made into stairs it would allow carvers a way to speed up the process and save some on chisels.

About the hammer since I mentioned it already, it should require a metal hammer to work with a chisel, or make a stiff penalty for using a stone hammer, like it has a high chance of breaking. I would love to add possible damage done when using a stone hammer, stone chips breaking off and flying around the work place, but that would probably be overkill.

Naturally the numbers are a bit arbitrary and would need some fleshing out and balancing for game-play.

TLDR: Right clicking with a chisel needs to take away from its durability, hammer in the hot bar too.

There's no way to correctly balance harder rock types without increasing the durability of the chisel by a large factor.

As for subtracting health when using the chisel, I think a discrepency could arise because depending on which mode you use, a chisel could take care of a block with 8 hits or 512, so I would propose that taking out a mini block has 1/64th of the chance of losing durability that the full slab does. That way two chisels should have roughly equal damage if they both were used remove a block

[fliffy101 12]

User suggests an inbalanced idea for balancing a mechanic. Dunk suggest a more balanced idea for the balancing. Everything is good.