Arrow Heads: Stone and Beyond

[barkingnoise 19]

But the human kind only had troubles with animals and stuffs in the begining, after they mastered how to craft armor and good quality metals animals posed no threat.

Man didn't have to fight skeletons, creepers, zombies and spiders that once they see you hurl themselves at you no matter what.

Besides, there is still the issue with PVP.

That said, I still think arrows should be capped at steel or the like. Vanilla arrows already do a lot of damage (more than one hit with diamond sword: http://www.minecraft...et/wiki/Weapons )

EDIT: Sorry, eternal. Your post came up while I was writing and I didn't pay attention. What you say is much better

Edited 19 Jun 2012 by barkingnoise

[Lumireaver 101]

I think the most sensible solution has already been stated - better materials means better chance of retrieval, instead of higher damage

Yeah, you're right. I glossed over that bit. This is indeed a better solution.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Also, like how only certain metals can be made into anvils, I think only certain metals should be smithable into arrowheads. Gold and Lead arrows would be more useless than flint ones - they'd turn into sticks with a blob of shapeless metal on the tip.

I say stick to copper, bronze, wrought iron, and steel.

[RogueHydra 32]

@Peffern

But those are end-game alloys, not any cheap metal or flint arrowhead, all the others(iron and downwards) are less powerfull than the regular vanilla arrow.

@RogueHydra

That wouldn't change anything, only that you could make arrows out of more materials.

@letalhell sorry. I meant nerf or remove vanilla arrows.

@RogueHydra I assume that there would be some benefit to better arrows.

Exactly. No benefit except going from wood -> stone -> metal. Have all the metals essentially equal. I guess a heavier metal would do more damage than a light softer metal. I dunno. I have 2 re-curve bows at 45 and 75 lbs and a crossbow that feels like it's about 60 lbs. And the arrows don't seem to make THAT much of a difference (only the bow pull made an actual physical difference when I hit the targets).

I think the most sensible solution has already been stated - better materials means better chance of retrieval, instead of higher damage

That's more like what I'm thinking.

[Peffern 94]

That's what I meant by "some benefit"

[bsb23 303]

So, I like the arrow progression idea and the fact that you could make arrows without flint but I promise you right now a wooden arrow is neither as accurate or as damaging as a metal arrow. I also have used clay arrows in the past just for an added idea when made right they are as sturdy as flint if not stronger (flint shatters very easily). The retrieval bonus makes no sense, I suppose there would be a chance of the lesser tiers breaking but only if shot into something very hard. A small damage change would make sense it shouldn't be anything big just small changes. An accuracy change would make sense also, more advanced arrows would be better balanced and metal can be made far more aerodynamic. This could also affect distance. As an added bonus for metal I think 4 metal arrowheads should be made per ingot this would make arrows a lot easier to make in bulk.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

The retrieval bonus makes no sense, I suppose there would be a chance of the lesser tiers breaking but only if shot into something very hard.

That's exactly it though - bone IS hard. What mob doesn't have bones (other than slimes, which I think still only spawn below lvl 40)? Even spiders have an exoskeleton. Flint splinters and loses it's edge against this stuff, harder metals have a way better shot of remaining unscathed. Retrieval bonuses actually make quite a bit of sense, really

[bsb23 303]

Arrows go through bone. I was talking about stone. But you are right flint and wood would splinter occasionally so it would work a little I don't know how it would be added though.

[fred da kiko 28]

That's exactly it though - bone IS hard. What mob doesn't have bones (other than slimes, which I think still only spawn below lvl 40)? Even spiders have an exoskeleton. Flint splinters and loses it's edge against this stuff, harder metals have a way better shot of remaining unscathed. Retrieval bonuses actually make quite a bit of sense, really

squids don't have bones, they have a hard beak but that's about it.

[ancientpower 32]

I'd really like to see tiered ammunition implemented well. With all the kinds of wood, tiered bows could work out, too.

Also, ctrl+f obsidian - no results. Obsidian was a common material for arrowheads way back when due to being able to become incredibly sharp. I think, if re-added to the game it could be a great material for high-tier arrowheads, as well as knives and the like.

Another quick thought is that obsidian is incredibly brittle, so maybe we could have arrows that do more damage, yet have a lower retrieval rate?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I'd really like to see tiered ammunition implemented well. With all the kinds of wood, tiered bows could work out, too.

Also, ctrl+f obsidian - no results. Obsidian was a common material for arrowheads way back when due to being able to become incredibly sharp. I think, if re-added to the game it could be a great material for high-tier arrowheads, as well as knives and the like.

Another quick thought is that obsidian is incredibly brittle, so maybe we could have arrows that do more damage, yet have a lower retrieval rate?

Only 1 problem with that - you can't get vanilla diamonds in TFC, so how do you plan on mining said obsidian?

[bsb23 303]

With diamond equivalents; rose gold, blue steel, and whatever else as far as I know they have the same level.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

With diamond equivalents; rose gold, blue steel, and whatever else as far as I know they have the same level.

wait really? I never knew TFC had diamond equivalents - awesome

[ancientpower 32]

Only 1 problem with that - you can't get vanilla diamonds in TFC, so how do you plan on mining said obsidian?

Why would it have to be mined with diamond? Obsidian is a brittle volcanic glass, you could mine it with stone, even.

[The Nameless Name 9]

ancientpower proves a strong point. Obsidian is just super-strong in vanilla, there could be a new improved obsidian, one that IS a brittle volcanic glass.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Why would it have to be mined with diamond? Obsidian is a brittle volcanic glass, you could mine it with stone, even.

Having been in the MC mindset for so long I'd totally forgotten that. You make a strong point and I apologize for my earlier sarcasm.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I personally think the arrows should have higher chances of retrieval, and a little higher damage, as the tier of the heads goes up... whatever, i'd like my arrows to make even more damage, or even having effects in the mob they hit.

So, how about this: dipping arrows into poisons or potions would grant them a minor version of it's effects. For example, dipping your arrows in an vanilla harming potion would give it higher damage, though it would be less damaging or even cure the undead -the opposite with healing potions-. Dipping it in some mercury or in a liquid made of spider eyes would make them poisoned arrows.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

ooh maybe we could also make different kinds of arrowheads?

like there could be a broadhead arrow that does more damage but less chance of retreival

or a small pointy one that peirces through mobs with armor or tough exoskeletons like spiders or armred zombies/skellingtons if implemented

or you could use some kind of oil, and a rag, and make flaming arrows!!!

[Jed1314 420]

Expanding on srgnoodle's idea, why don't you implement one "stone age" arrow, that will be a general purpose starter arrow, then more complex metal arrows with higher durability as the metals tier increases ? Something like bodkins, broadheads and cage (for flaming oil rags). That way, there is more of a reason to transition to metal from stone other than durability (if you think about it, the abundance of stone vs. comparative rarity of metal may offset any recovery bonus alone)

[darthvader45 4]

Jed's idea, combined with increased retrieval rate for higher-tier arrows, and Just_Another's idea of poisoned arrows, sounds very logical. I agree here. Here's my idea of a structured tier:

Stone Age: Any stone makes a basic, weak stone arrow, that does at least 2-3 hearts, with 3.5 on critical hit

Bronze Age: Early metals like copper, tin and bronze would make light arrows, that are slightly stronger, doing 3-4 hearts of damage, only matching vanilla arrows' regular damage with critical hits.

Most metals beyond(wrought iron, steel) would make heavier arrows(don't fly as far, but recover much more easily and do more damage, around 5-6 hearts of damage and 7 on critical hit.)

Red, Black, and Blue steels would be left out, which is better since we don't need OP arrows.

[Treyflix 277]

Jed's idea, combined with increased retrieval rate for higher-tier arrows, and Just_Another's idea of poisoned arrows, sounds very logical. I agree here. Here's my idea of a structured tier:

Stone Age: Any stone makes a basic, weak stone arrow, that does at least 2-3 hearts, with 3.5 on critical hit

Bronze Age: Early metals like copper, tin and bronze would make light arrows, that are slightly stronger, doing 3-4 hearts of damage, only matching vanilla arrows' regular damage with critical hits.

Most metals beyond(wrought iron, steel) would make heavier arrows(don't fly as far, but recover much more easily and do more damage, around 5-6 hearts of damage and 7 on critical hit.)

Red, Black, and Blue steels would be left out, which is better since we don't need OP arrows.

I really don't see where you get the idea that we are still using the hearts health system. Or why you think that wrought iron is heavier than bronze when in fact it is lighter. Not by much, but a little bit.

[Gotheran 1]

I like this idea, after playing RuneScape as long as I had, and then moving over to Skyrim, I feel a tier to arrows is a very good idea, increasing drop chance and a small damage increase for better arrow heads.

 

And perhaps (Sorry if someone else has suggested it I skimmed most of the topic) Reinforced bow limbs, made of the various metal types to increase bow durability and peak damage a small amount. Maybe even further making Crossbows with hard hitting heavy metal bolts. And maybe the change in arrowhead/bolt metal would effect the flight distance of the arrow as well as damage and drop chance, heavier metals would hit harder but return less often and get less distance, where lighter metals would fly far and get a better chance to be returned. And imo the alloy metals seem like they'd actually weigh somewhat less than the more basic naturally occurring metals.

[Vagabond 11]

Hello,

 

Arrow tiers: Having different tiers of arrows would be cool, yes. But what if certain arrows were better at certain things? Now, this would require more mobs and perhaps enchanting/alchemy to be put back in the game (I'm a noob to TFC, but I haven't come across either of those things while playing or on the wiki, so I am assuming they were taken out). Wrought iron arrow heads would be good against fae mobs, silver would be good against vampires and werewolves, and steel is what you want when fighting a enemy in plate harness (including something like a dragon, who's scales are as strong as plate). At the same time, mobs would be resistant to certain metals too; like vampires and werewolves who can heal through most non-fire/silver injuries rather quickly. Poison would be more effective on a porous items, increasing the chance of recovering a still poisoned item if you hit or miss. At the same time, certain metals could accept certain enchantments easier, reducing the cost associated with enchanting the item.

 

Power Creep: I personally don't believe in leveled lists; someone mentioned stronger enemies spawning as your tech level did. All critters should spawn in areas they would live in, not just day or night. One of the worse things about minecraft was that enemies spawned only at night, and I couldn't find the evil necromancer raising the dead and kill him to put a stop to the spawning of skelitons and zombies in the area. Skelitons and zombies should be in dungeons, ruined fortresses, or a burned down cottage (as examples). In my opinion, TFC is the ultimate survival mod, but a survival game isn't worth much if its just got thirst and hunger - you need clear and present dangers from the climate as well as the flora and fauna. Which is why I think leveled lists are bad- if I get killed by a dragon for walking into it's lair, or not finding a place to hide when I spot one, that is my own fault and I deserve the K.O. My idea of preventing power creep is summarized above in the arrow section- instead of a straight damage boost, make different metals do different things.

 

Wards: If more monsters were added, certain wards have been used in human history to prevent mankind from being overrun with them. Salt and/or ash sprinkled in entry ways to prevent evil from entering. Vampires couldn't cross running water or enter a house without permission. Wolfbane could keep werewolves away. A grove of Rowans was one of the safest places you could be, A sprig of holly hung in your doorway would keep seelie and unseelie wights away (fae). Dragons are lazy, always hungry, greedy, and have a love for puzzles; they love gold, but are too lazy to mine - you can give them some to go away. They love to eat, so you could give them livestock to go away. Win a game of riddles against them and they will spare you till next time.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Cheers,

Michael

[Gotheran 1]

Here's a thought, Skeletons have limited sized quivers and like their armour their arrow type is generated by a similar rule, and when they run out of arrows their bow disappears from their hand and they procede to use zombie tactics.

[SRF ULWE 0]

Hello all.

 

The first thing I want to say I'm sorry for my bad english.

 

Overpowered arrows is may be a truily path of bow reanimate.

After tier 2 metal weapons bow is getting invalid weapon, no damage, less accurate arrows, needs feathers.

 

I think i have an idea how bust arrows and not owerpower it.

 

Need to add a mod armor penetration and damage to the parabolic distribution of arrows.

Tier -1. Wood, Rock, Flint arrows. This arrows have done 1-1.5-2 hearts damage to uncovered body. These arrows can also penetrate the leather, but after breaking through some of the kinetic energy is lost and the resulting damage will be equal 0.5-1-1.5. And these arrows can not penetrate any metal armor.

 

Tier 0. Bismuth, Tin, Zink. These arrows are already metal tips and can easily pierce leather armor and cause damage to 1-1.5-2 hearts damage as well as on the body not protected by armor. And can also penetrate the armor of its same type metal, but after breaking the resulting damage will be equal 0.5-1-1.5.

Tier 1-5. It has the same rules as tier 0. Armor easily breaks through the lower tier level, a same tier level breaks hard, the top-level will not penetrate and no damage. Figures damage at all levels are identical.Thus, arrows tipped with red steel will cause the same damage on the uncovered body as arrows tipped with zinc or rock.

 

And we do not need to invent new hardcore monsters and bosses, do not need the nerf hight lvl tier arrows.

 

Discuss?