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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."

11 posts in this topic

Hi friends. I am very anxious about TFC 2, i do not comment too much in the forum and i don't know how to mod. I will put the ideas i have here.

1 - About world generation. I am a little sad about the world functioning in slands. I have playing Kingdoms and enjoyedm but i don't think it's would be nice in TFC, but put 2 options intead, one with the old world generation and one with the new. Please. 

2 - About hunting. I really love to hunt, But i don't enjoy the spawn system of minecraft to some more rare animals like deer for example. Would be nice to create and system that trigger the spawn, a system that work with tracks and after you meet some tracks requirements the animal apawn near as specific object, similar to assassins's creed 3. The tracks must be triggered to spawn, that will use less memories than letting the tracks being created in real time. And you can make use of the plants that animal feed or in case of predators they spawn near an group of cattle that they usually hunt. It would be nice too to create an generation system like this with the prospector pick, simplifiing the ore spawn system so you will have just different soil and rock types but the tracks will guide you to what you are searching in an chain of 5 to 10 tracks steps for example, or even more in rare materials. This would create an feeling of adventure and the inovative landscape that generate new structures while you play would create some signature landscape with rare materials or animals  while you play the game. I think that is more fun than the isle system. But again, i can't program and i would not make an nice mod like TFC, so excuse me my arrogance with this suggestion. 

Also. The trigger can work like this. The grass and some bushes with berrys can be used like tracks creator, also some animal footsteps and even trail of bloods were they push the fallen carcass, if you use fallen carcass, you will need to make an provess of field dress and the carcass go in the back backpack slot or in the horse to bigger animals, or you need to camp near to do the field dress... But about the tracks agains. You also will need to create an line layer that create the direction of the tracks and an system that rotate the objects in minecraft and put the facing the direction the animal run, you don't need to use 8 cardial orientation points, you can use 4 instead so it work in minecrart square system. Would be very nice to collect animals and to hunt rare animals and plants, at least for decorations, but later some people can do mods that will compliment that system, so leave some plants and item slots to them. Them someone can make the magic mod separated from the TFC so all the work won't fall in your back, also. Make an collective item with an old rock with the name of the mod developers so we can pay our respects to you in game. hehehe. Hugs. 

Thank You for the attention. 

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That does sound like an innovative system, I also heard that there are going to be "water chunks" Where animals move to drink and then move elsewhere, creating animal movement instead of animals being in the same place you found them several days ago.

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The animals moving about is already in place. 

Old world generation broke with the new minecraft updates. I know you are hesitant about the new island system but having played with it, it doesn't feel much different other than you won't be using a rowboat to cross an ocean. You'll be using the path dimension.

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As I understand it, one of the major benefits of the island system is that it allows the use of discreet climatic zones, rather than a temperature gradient system.  The temperature gradient system was the thing that created the hard line of acacia forests near the equator.  I really like having climatic zones, because it allows a lot of interesting variation from island to island - even east-west - that wasn't possible in TFC1.  So ya, I think the island system is worth it.  The islands are usually pretty big, so it's not like it feels confining.  My only wish is to ditch the portal system, since it seems to have necessitated the islands all being rather same-ey in order to accommodate portal placement.  I really enjoyed the islands of earlier versions, where there were large internal lakes and such.  That doesn't seem to occur anymore.

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20 hours ago, Darmo said:

As I understand it, one of the major benefits of the island system is that it allows the use of discreet climatic zones, rather than a temperature gradient system.  The temperature gradient system was the thing that created the hard line of acacia forests near the equator.  I really like having climatic zones, because it allows a lot of interesting variation from island to island - even east-west - that wasn't possible in TFC1.  So ya, I think the island system is worth it.  The islands are usually pretty big, so it's not like it feels confining.  My only wish is to ditch the portal system, since it seems to have necessitated the islands all being rather same-ey in order to accommodate portal placement.  I really enjoyed the islands of earlier versions, where there were large internal lakes and such.  That doesn't seem to occur anymore.

I don't know man. I agree with you about the direction of the islands not always facing north, so the word generation will surprise us more. But i don't like the idea of portal system.... I preffer an system like an Courier NPC or caravan or ship that you activate for a cost of food and water and them use fast travel points instead of exploring open sea. That would be nice too. But an portal.... ah man, i don't like those magic thing being too much blended to the world, magic is nice when is more subtle. 

I am not against, i preffer that he resolve the game. But you can disquize the games mechanics in an more subtle aproach, like caravans or ships travels points. I will let Geralt of Rivia also explain his point of view. 

 

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On 8/7/2017 at 4:27 AM, Keen_Falcon said:

 But i don't like the idea of portal system....

Not sure why you phrased it with a 'but'.  I don't really like the portal system either.  So I think we're in agreement, though maybe for different reasons. 

The portal system as I understand it was basically brought in as a hard enforcer of island progression - the player had to defeat an island boss to get a key(s?) to activate the portals.  The boss being presumably very hard to beat without tiering up your weapons and armor.  But I think this could probably be tolerably enforced simply by having the armor-and-weapon-using mobs of successive islands equipped with better gear.  It's true that minecraft mobs are dumb, and a player could probably kill high-tier mobs while under-geared, if they really put in the effort and want to do it.  But it'll be more difficult - my alternate weapons and armor suggestion would specifically help address the issue.  In my original suggestion there, a weapon 1 tier below the armor would do 25% of it's damage.  So even if the player is dancing around the mobs, they're using 4x the durability of their weapon just based on number of hits, nevermind if gear takes more damage opposing higher tier metals. 

The really abusive part of minecraft is missiles, which mobs are usually ill equipped to handle.  But if taking on higher tier armor with inferior missiles, the player is going to be spending TONS of resources and time making all those arrows (metal arrow heads would NEED to be a thing in this system).  Combined with forbidding block placement before an area is conquered, I just really think the game can be balanced to mostly enforce/strongly encourage the metal tier progression without the hard enforcement of portals and boat forbiddance. 

The boat issue can be strongly discourage simply by strong ocean mobs hanging around the sector borders, or deep ocean chunks, I think.   I don't think it would be worth the player risking getting killed at sea and losing their gear, vs simply following the intended tiering pattern and being safer.  Or, as you say, have the option of purchasing passage on a ship.  The cost being perhaps 4-5x the metal amount required for a full kit of gear.  So the player can gear up and boat themselves at X cost, or pay for passage at 5X cost.  Maybe they can even build boat with hulls plated in the metal of the island tier, and that metal makes the boat immune to the specific mobs that are meant to prevent boating across sectors easily.   The nice thing about ship transport, it seems to me that it could simply be out in the ocean (but inside the border mob ring - player boats to shore in a normal little boat) and so not near as touchy about how and where it appears.  And no paths dimensions (well, at first maybe) so that avoids fiddling with that for awhile.   Just seems to me like it'd save some effort on Bioxx's part, and give players more flexibility, if they want a free-ocean-and-boating world.

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The portals are a way of connecting the islands without crossing the deep sea which due to how the terrain is generated can have holes in the bedrock. It also allows for the transportation of non-item entities such as pack animals and trains. It is lockable preventing players from skipping island tiers. The distance between island is vast, so it shortens the distance needed to travel. Dimensions are a well-established mechanic of minecraft making it easier for Bioxx.

Boats were buggy until recently and increase chunk loading/generation, one of the more expensive server processes. Boating across nothing but water is also boring, where the path dimension most definitely will not be. I don't know what all is planned for them but I do know they are like a sketch of what is to come as they currently are. For instance, in the future, players may encounter a swift death if they stay in the path dimension too long, even if there might be tempting reasons to do so.

TFC2 will have magic and isn't pure tech, so portals are not outside of the scope. A NPC caravan/ship or other such devices would have to be indestructible which might make less sense than an indestructible portal.  

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So the bedrock holes can't be fixed?  My impression was that Bioxx was aware of them, but simply wasn't going to bother fixing them because the plan was to forbid access to those areas.

Transport between boats could be instantaneous, which is the shortest you can get.  Personally I'm fine with having indestructible ships or caravans or whatever.  I'd trade it for more free-form exploration and especially more varied island design any day.

From what I've seen of the island generation thus far, most of these islands are maybe 100-300 blocks apart at their close points.  Hardly what I'd call 'vast'.  That's a far cry from the endless ocean wastes of TFC1.  It's nothing as far as MC boat travel is concerned.

My other concern about the current portal situation is that you may end up with the player getting teched up, but possibly not finding the portal yet.  And now they're ready to move on to the next island, east or west but can't find it.  That could be frustrating if they just want to continue advancing, and not move parallel north-south.  These portals are sometimes hidden under trees.  If nothing else their structure could stand to be made larger so that they have a good chance of being hidden by trees.  Ships on the other hand, being in open water, would always be very visible.

The easier mob transport via portal is a good point.  Ships would be harder to accomplish that with.  In the scope of a 'classic' ship design anyway.

If there's grand plans for the paths dimension that's great.   But kind of my two main points here are that 1) TFC2 progress is slow, and the portals and paths dimensions seem prone to bugs and just generally seem like another huge code time sink. And 2) the paths dimensions seems to be necessitating some very same-ey island design, and the very rigid nature of ocean travel.  The ocean travel thing is already a concern of several people I think.  Imo, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to cut loose the paths idea for now, leave ocean travel open, work on the more important nuts and bolts stuff, and maybe revisit paths later when the game is more playable.  Perhaps after playtesting combat to see if it is a sufficient advancement brake on its own. 

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Could be good to soft lock the oceans a short distance from each island, ie with shark swarms or temporary barriers, and then release the lock on surrounding islands once that island is conquered. Long term, I mean. That'd leave open the option to make use of water/ocean-based mods in combination with TFC, once the player reaches the right criteria.

I'm a fan of the path dimension though. Ties nicely into the tiering system, breaks up regular travel. Worth the time.

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I'm actually mildly sad that this is going in a Glorantha-esque direction. I liked TFC1 a bunch, apart from a few retarded things like no slings/decent ranged options for Skeletons, and no use for half the mob drops. I hope you can outskill your way past the Portal system, and that the Portal system is just easier.

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Maybe we should compromise. You first use the path dimension and portals to access an island. Then, when you conquered the island the curse that protected the ocean span between it is lifted. After that you could use the path dimension or boats.

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