Animal meat / Drop Adjustment for decreased availability

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Since you have implemented a long pregnancy period and male/female animals there are a few suggestions to go along with this.

Some sort of nest object to incubate chicken eggs.

First thing, need to be able to tell WHICH animals are male, this is not just a size issue, male cows dont have udders.

Chickens should molt feathers at some regular interval, and one should have the ability to harvest some feathers from a chicken (this should visibly change the chicken to indicate that it cannot be done again until the chicken recovers.)

Butchering/Leathercrafting

When an animal dies, it should spawn an immobile corpse entity that you then have to butcher with appropriate tools to obtain useful items.

In the case of chickens, killing a chicken should give a fair number of feathers, and when you butcher it you get the meat as usual.

Lamb/Mutton should be added as well as veal now that you have put animal ages in.

and since we're implementing this butchering thing why not go whole hog and add a either leather type for each animal or at least the ability to collect leather from all appropriate animals. (pretty much all except chicken)

So before collecting the meat, one has the opportunity to skin the beast and collect the raw skin.

The skin then must undergo the tanning process, however you will desire to implement this is fine.

I know it involves stripping the fur and stretching the hide to allow it to dry, beyond that I'm a bit fuzzy.

Butchering the animal should provide meat items proportional to its SIZE (since you implemented size), and appropriate for the general sizes of each animal type. Getting only a chance of 1-3 steak and 1-3 leather per cow (or however this drop rate stuff works) results in a lot of dead cows and no meat which is just silly with such a long breeding process.

Butchering the animal and removing the meat should leave a skeleton, which you can break to get some number of bones. (and maybe skull items for decorations)

idea: (a way to make wall trophies, like animal heads, from the corpses)

This means:

Cows and Bears produce a lot of meat

Sheep, Pigs, Dogs would produce medium amounts of meat

(deer if you ever add them will have a fair amount of variability in their size so they're likely to waver between a lot and medium amounts, unless you kill a young one, where you'll barely get anything.)

Chickens will just produce the one chicken, and ether a weaker sort of bone than mammals, or no bone at all, if you prefer that..

animal types that would be fun to see implemented:

Deer

Horses

Mountain Lions & Bobcats

Other birds.

Water creatures (frogs/toads/etc)

More types of fish, that are actually mobs rather than just food items spawning from fishing pole on water.

We dont want this to turn into mocreatures, but I think you're doing a better job already.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Oh man, that's quite a long list. Nests are planned. I have a debug method for telling genders apart and I might let that be implemented in the game until the models reflect sexes. Deer are far into the works right now, and I might be convinced to release a picture of the model . I am seriously considering increasing the drop rates from wild animals and making a lot of them hostile (think aurochs and wild boars)

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

More types of fish, that are actually mobs rather than just food items spawning from fishing pole on water.

oh yeah for sure. There are currently three planned fish, two salt and one freshwater, all of which have their own models and exist as mobs.

[Brotherly_bro 7]

I like it all, +1

[Jed1314 420]

(think aurochs and wild boars)

I am loving that ! :D

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Oh man, that's quite a long list. Nests are planned. I have a debug method for telling genders apart and I might let that be implemented in the game until the models reflect sexes. Deer are far into the works right now, and I might be convinced to release a picture of the model . I am seriously considering increasing the drop rates from wild animals and making a lot of them hostile (think aurochs and wild boars)

I think that makes sense, and the taming / breeding process will evevntually get you to a normal cow/pig? Same with wolves/dogs I suppose?

I think the idea of a tool-harvestable corpse entity makes better sense than simply increasing drop rate, although that would be an acceptable short term solution.

Using knives to skin the animal and then maybe a cleaver + a sharp knife (in case of metal tools) for increased efficiency or just a knife for butchering to get meat? I don't know how detailed you would want to make it but I wouldn't turn down the idea of having different cuts of meat.

I still stand by having the skeleton left behind, if you don't break it to get the bones, then it should remain for a short period and eventually despawn (to simulate rotting and wearing). Maybe even have it be slightly reddish to indicate leftover meat bits and have it slowly degrade to white and bleach before despawning.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I think that makes sense, and the taming / breeding process will evevntually get you to a normal cow/pig? Same with wolves/dogs I suppose?

I think the idea of a tool-harvestable corpse entity makes better sense than simply increasing drop rate, although that would be an acceptable short term solution.

Using knives to skin the animal and then maybe a cleaver + a sharp knife (in case of metal tools) for increased efficiency or just a knife for butchering to get meat? I don't know how detailed you would want to make it but I wouldn't turn down the idea of having different cuts of meat.

I still stand by having the skeleton left behind, if you don't break it to get the bones, then it should remain for a short period and eventually despawn (to simulate rotting and wearing). Maybe even have it be slightly reddish to indicate leftover meat bits and have it slowly degrade to white and bleach before despawning.

Bioxx wants to head in the direction of butchery, but i always found it a bit gruesome, I could get on board though. Yes, you will probably have to breed the wild animals into the tame vanilla-like animals minecraft has right now. I feel that for the time being, a whole cow shouldn't drop 2 steaks. Otherwise an entire herd of cattle would barely let you survive the winter.

[Jed1314 420]

Bioxx wants to head in the direction of butchery, but i always found it a bit gruesome, I could get on board though. Yes, you will probably have to breed the wild animals into the tame vanilla-like animals minecraft has right now. I feel that for the time being, a whole cow shouldn't drop 2 steaks. Otherwise an entire herd of cattle would barely let you survive the winter.

Butchery in the game would be a great feature, but I can also understand your resistance due to it's fairly blunt implication "we're cutting up dead things". Minecraft has really stayed away from covering the fact you're still killing the cows by giving you cute little cartoon steaks

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Bioxx wants to head in the direction of butchery, but i always found it a bit gruesome, I could get on board though. Yes, you will probably have to breed the wild animals into the tame vanilla-like animals minecraft has right now. I feel that for the time being, a whole cow shouldn't drop 2 steaks. Otherwise an entire herd of cattle would barely let you survive the winter.

Good to know that Bioxx is onboard with butchery, since that seems to be what the community is railing for - now to debate amongst ourselves the best method of implementing the GUI, lol

Incidentally, how will the breeding work? I mean, will there be a game counter recording what generation of tamed mob the entity is currently on? How do you determine when an auroch is supposed to give birth to a cow?

[Jasnatdic 85]

9 months after the mommy Auroch and the daddy Auroch... err nm.

[bsb23 303]

Linking two threads people forgot about that has a lot of ideas just to get things moving...

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/646-butchery/page__hl__butchery

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/28-kill-mobs-get-corpse/page__hl__butchery__st__20

I personally am I fan of a GUI when right clicking with a knife on the spot with additional drops when it is done on a butchers table (so you don't drop anything). Multiple tools also please, not just one that would be boring.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Good to know that Bioxx is onboard with butchery, since that seems to be what the community is railing for - now to debate amongst ourselves the best method of implementing the GUI, lol

Incidentally, how will the breeding work? I mean, will there be a game counter recording what generation of tamed mob the entity is currently on? How do you determine when an auroch is supposed to give birth to a cow?

To get technical on you, it will function much the same as size does. Size works like this : (float) (((rand.nextInt (5) - 2) / 10f) + 1F) * (1.0F - 0.1F * sex); which basically means that it generates a random number between 0 and 4, subtracts 2 (meaning -2 and 2) divides by 10 (-0.2 to 0.2) and adds 1. This gives a range of 0.8 to 1.2 times the average size for that animal. If the animal's sex is 0 (male) then this number is multiplied by 1. if the sex is 1 (female) the size is multiplied by 0.9. This is how the sizes vary by gender. The size code for the baby is (float) (((rand.nextInt (5) - 2) / 10f) + 1F) * (1.0F - 0.1F * sex) * (float)Math.sqrt((mother.size_mod + F_size)/1.9F); which is the same as the original, but multiplies the result by the father's size plus the mother's size which on average should 1.9. If one or both of the parents are above average size, the resulting number is > 1 and the baby gets larger. If they are below average, the baby gets smaller. If one is larger and one smaller, it should be about average as well. This will be similar to how the taming is achieved, if you can locate animals that are more docile or less agressive (or give more milk or something, idk) and breed them, they will produce offspring that are likely to be even MORE so, and eventually, when the variable reaches a certain level, a cow is born from an aurochs.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

To get technical on you, it will function much the same as size does. Size works like this : (float) (((rand.nextInt (5) - 2) / 10f) + 1F) * (1.0F - 0.1F * sex); which basically means that it generates a random number between 0 and 4, subtracts 2 (meaning -2 and 2) divides by 10 (-0.2 to 0.2) and adds 1. This gives a range of 0.8 to 1.2 times the average size for that animal. If the animal's sex is 0 (male) then this number is multiplied by 1. if the sex is 1 (female) the size is multiplied by 0.9. This is how the sizes vary by gender. The size code for the baby is (float) (((rand.nextInt (5) - 2) / 10f) + 1F) * (1.0F - 0.1F * sex) * (float)Math.sqrt((mother.size_mod + F_size)/1.9F); which is the same as the original, but multiplies the result by the father's size plus the mother's size which on average should 1.9. If one or both of the parents are above average size, the resulting number is > 1 and the baby gets larger. If they are below average, the baby gets smaller. If one is larger and one smaller, it should be about average as well. This will be similar to how the taming is achieved, if you can locate animals that are more docile or less agressive (or give more milk or something, idk) and breed them, they will produce offspring that are likely to be even MORE so, and eventually, when the variable reaches a certain level, a cow is born from an aurochs.

So at the most basic level, we're meant to selectively breed them for desired traits at first, and then when the traits get high enough the next generation is automatically the passive mob version?

Also, would you consider adjusting the meat drop rates to [average drop rate]*(1 - [animal's size]), rounded up? This way a tiny-ass animal only gives minimal meat, but one that's nice and fat can feed you for a while.

So a normal, say, 10-13 drop mob would be something like

Math.ceil ((rand.nextInt (4) + 10) * (1 - F_size))

...not a programmer obviously, so a lot of that was pulled right out of my ass

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

So at the most basic level, we're meant to selectively breed them for desired traits at first, and then when the traits get high enough the next generation is automatically the passive mob version?

Also, would you consider adjusting the meat drop rates to [average drop rate]*(1-[animal's size])?

So a normal, say, 10-13 drop mob would be something like

((rand.nextInt (4) + 10) * (1 - F_size))

...not a programmer obviously, so a lot of that was pulled right out of my ass

I could do that, if you wanted the drop rate to be determined by the size of the animal's father

but in all seriousness, I do plan to do what you MEANT

it should actually be more like

(int)((rand.nextInt(4) +10) * size_mod);

infact, I'm going to do that RIGHT now.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

So at the most basic level, we're meant to selectively breed them for desired traits at first, and then when the traits get high enough the next generation is automatically the passive mob version?

Also, would you consider adjusting the meat drop rates to [average drop rate]*(1 - [animal's size]), rounded up? This way a tiny-ass animal only gives minimal meat, but one that's nice and fat can feed you for a while.

So a normal, say, 10-13 drop mob would be something like

Math.ceil ((rand.nextInt (4) + 10) * (1 - F_size))

...not a programmer obviously, so a lot of that was pulled right out of my ass

...disregard me, I'm a tard. I meant to say to just multiply it by the animal's size. Just a plain Math.ceil ((rand.nextInt (4) + 10) * F_size).

otherwise you start getting more meat when the animal is skinnier...

Edit:

it should actually be more like

(int)((rand.nextInt(4) +10) * size_mod);

Well nvm me again, lol. You're already on it. Derpadoo

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I could do that, if you wanted the drop rate to be determined by the size of the animal's father

but in all seriousness, I do plan to do what you MEANT

it should actually be more like

(int)((rand.nextInt(4) +10) * size_mod);

infact, I'm going to do that RIGHT now.

Is there not a variable that is storing the animal's current size that could be accessed? It would seem that makes more sense than basing it on the animal's father (especially if you kill it as a calf)

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Is there not a variable that is storing the animal's current size that could be accessed? It would seem that makes more sense than basing it on the animal's father (especially if you kill it as a calf)

.........................................

you better not be serious. F_size is the size of the father, and only exists in the constructor for second generation and above animals. size_mod (which is in the code you quoted from me) is the variable that handles an animal's size.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

.........................................

you better not be serious. F_size is the size of the father, and only exists in the constructor for second generation and above animals. size_mod (which is in the code you quoted from me) is the variable that handles an animal's size.

Lol I realized that after you posted the correction to my pseudocode. I just saw F_size in the code you had in the original post, and seeing no other size-related variables that looked appropriate, assumed it was just mob size

[kotoroshinoto 97]

.........................................

you better not be serious. F_size is the size of the father, and only exists in the constructor for second generation and above animals. size_mod (which is in the code you quoted from me) is the variable that handles an animal's size.

ahhhhhh, sorry I misunderstood what you wrote previously.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

had a lot of other stuff bogging me down recently but I should be getting back to work any second =P expect more animal updates in the next week or two

[DoodTheDud 29]

Is there any plans to have horses or some other work animal to pull carts and help you transport large amounts of items at once?

[kotoroshinoto 97]

toward the idea of sexual dimorphism:

bulls should have larger horns and have a slightly more muscular build (front half larger than back half) and lack an udder (maybe you could put a small recolored surface rock sprite down there to show it has a "package").

Male chickens should have bigger combs and a fan-tail sort of thing going on. (and if we're going to get into domestication, chickens really shouldn't start out white.)

Not sure about pigs, I dont know them all that well to know of any obvious features besides a penis to differentiate.

same for dogs. maybe you could have the male dogs seek trees and lift their leg every so often

Stags should have larger antlers. (hey, have deer antlers grow/shed according to seasons, that would be cool)

Baby deer should be spotted.

[mrpwase 66]

toward the idea of sexual dimorphism:

bulls should have larger horns and have a slightly more muscular build (front half larger than back half) and lack an udder (maybe you could put a small recolored surface rock sprite down there to show it has a "package").

Male chickens should have bigger combs and a fan-tail sort of thing going on. (and if we're going to get into domestication, chickens really shouldn't start out white.)

Not sure about pigs, I dont know them all that well to know of any obvious features besides a penis to differentiate.

same for dogs. maybe you could have the male dogs seek trees and lift their leg every so often

Stags should have larger antlers. (hey, have deer antlers grow/shed according to seasons, that would be cool)

Baby deer should be spotted.

If you'd have told an 8-year-old me that one day he would be playing a game that might feature checking the genitals of pigs, he would probably have run screaming

Nice ideas though man.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

...

...No offence, but I sincerely do not want to have a male auroch walk halfway over a 1-block gap I'm standing under, leaving me staring at the square bullcock 3 inches from my face.

Thanks but no thanks.

Keep it PG.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

animal gentials are hardly rated M. Have you ever been near a real male goat? its kind of hard to miss the giant balls no matter where you are when you're looking. An udder is basically giant cow tits, so milking is basically fondling a cow's boobs, would you call that rated R?

But if it really makes you uncomfortable maybe it could also be colorized slightly differently, and you could have the more obvious genital thing be a switch in the configs. (to render or not to render?)