Balthizarlucien

Could you please post a pastebin of the crash report you got when generating 2411486809862782029 ? It doesn't crash for me.

I was seed busting from a work computer running windows 7 I will see if I get the same crash here at home. If I do I will definitely give you the crash log. I will also send the crash log from my work machine when I get back there Friday just in case.

Pheasants are already in the game, just in case you didn't know.Also, just in case you didn't know, TFC is open source. You can find most of our mob code here if you want to see how the AI works: https://github.com/Deadrik/TFCraft/tree/master/src/Common/com/bioxx/tfc/Entities

I was aware of pheasants in TFC but I'm also aware they cannot be bred. I think that it would be neat to be able to breed all of the animals on my list. It would allow for a very diverse and climatically themed farms. And every animal on my list has been bred in captivity and a big number of them are even commercially farmed as well.Thank you for letting me know that TFC is open source as that was something I did not know. I will probably spend several hours pouring over the code now so I can get intimately familiar with the inner workings of it. If I find any bugs or logic errors I will be happy to pm you about it

~public float size_mod; //How large the animal is

 

This equates to the same Size modifier I was talking about. It appears that the way size is handled is really good but I believe that you could modify this to allow for significantly larger variations within a single species. With the inclusion of a genetic algorithm you could enable dynamic size modification to the base size according to survival rates which would allow for the wild population to adapt according to terrain, food, water and other environmental factors but you may need to include a basic (but appropriate) dietary tracking to each animal class so you can use a nutrition variable to adjust the animals health as well as fertility and size.

 

~public float strength_mod; //how strong the animal is

 

This is basically the same as well! I would like to see this stat influence things like carrying capacity and cart pulling (to give a reason for roads but also because it would be nice to have some way to transport the equivalent of a large chest worth of goods) but I understand if that would tweak mechanics in the wrong direction.

 

 

~public float aggression_mod = 1; //How aggressive / obstinate the animal is

 

This is very close to the stat I was talking about called temperament and acts roughly the same as well. domestication is domestication no matter the name

 

~public float obedience_mod = 1; //How well the animal responds to commands.

 

This could equate to intelligence but I again do not know if Minecraft uses a Finite State Machine model to control AI. If it does, you could incorporate some useful and trainable traits like pigs which root through dirt for food. If you added this and things like truffles I could have a truffle hunting pig lol. You should also include some AI which are either only very specifically useful or generally useless to enable a visible range of intelligence. For example, you could add a basic AI script which has a rare trigger like (if block.snow == true) the animal will flee. This would essentially force a migration south and cause the animals to vacate a given area.

 

~public float colour_mod = 1; //what the animal looks like

 

this is a no duh stat. I might make one expansion here though dunk. You could make this influence more than just the visual appearance of the animal. Incorporate the color into the mob detection AI for each animal so that if an animal is born with a color that is not able to be easily seen by a predator it would influence the local population. That is of course just a thought. It would however allow players to create camouflage by picking the correct color clothing or armor to wear which would be really cool.

 

Heck, you could also allow for the animal to pick from a random range within the spectrum and use the skin transition technique as well to allow for a broader range of coloration and patterning. Implementation would be very simple because you could use the way trees change color to shift the animal's color just ensure you use greyscale skins for the animals at that point. Of course again I am talking about a genetic algorithm to incorporate inheritance here but I am sure you knew that.

 

~public float climate_mod = 1; //climate adaptability

 

I am glad to see that you have included this. Climate adaptability could yield some very interesting effects if you added them correctly you could, for example, increase wild sheep wool drops from a modifier associated with this. The same goes for lard from pigs etc. You could also scale the model size for the body segment, leg segment etc to display the "extra bulk" the animal is carrying. You could even implement the same transition of texture I mentioned before to display a coat length phasing from exceptionally short haired to extremely (almost borderline crazy) long hair. This could then be used to display not only coat adaptations but also things like the difference between a winter coat and a summer coat. That would be a very nice touch which would most likely take very little actual code as the transition code has already been written for food

 

public float hard_mod = 1; //hardiness

 

This call I am not sure of. What is its intent? Is Hardiness its resistance to damage or is it a resistance to an environmental effect or even possibly an increase in the animal's hit points? I would love some clarification on it as I am sure a bit of thought was included with its use but with so little code to reference I can only infer.

 

The calls which you could add to this would be the following:

 

public float horn_mod = 1;

 

/* This would accurately represent the extra damage done from animals which have horns, tusks, spurs or the like as these are intended by nature to be used as weapons.

*/

to include the horn_mod to the damage I would use a simple if-else statement like this:

 

if(horns == true)

{

int var2 = (int)(TFC_MobData.WolfDamage * getStrength() * getAggression() * horn_mod() * (getSize()/2 + 0.5F));

}

 

else

{

int var2 = (int)(TFC_MobData.WolfDamage * getStrength() * getAggression() * (getSize()/2 + 0.5F));

}

 

Senses

 

As I am unsure how the Minecraft Client handles mob detection I cannot write an example for you to understand my thought process but I can give you a mod to reference that handle similar functions...

 

Zombie Awareness – This mod contains hearing, smell and normal sight. I am sure it is a simple block detection method it uses to reference but that is a guess.

 

Volume of Production

 

This would be a bit more difficult to control but I think it would make or break a breeding and animal husbandry system as it is the primary reason we breed livestock in the first place. There are products that animals produce that could simply be varied for output. Wool is a good example. When shearing a wild sheep from a warm climate you should only get a small amount of wool. When shearing the same sheep living in a cold climate it should drop more wool.

 

This trait could easily be bred for by the same means as any other inheritable. You should determine what the maximum feasible output could be (I can look into sheep breeds and tell you if you want) and then simply create another sliding scale. Output of product could even be applied to offspring. You would simply create the function for the output of a product and then feed in separate adjustable variables [one for each possible product] to generate said output be it milk or calves.

 

 

These are simply my own suggestions regarding the traits in each animal and with the addition of the other two it would really round out animal husbandry and make breeding a very customizable.

 

 

Overall Dunk, the animals you have made are all very well written and are decent representations of their realistic selves. I am simply interested in helping Improve them so that they are able to be more variable in the wild and allow for players to be able to feel a strong sense of accomplishment in creating their own breed of livestock just as they do when they Finally craft that first piece of armor or build the epic house of their survival dreams. The breeding segment of TFC feels a bit weaker in implementation as compared to the rest of agriculture and some of these simple changes would really boost it to the same level.

 

If you would like me too I will continue to collect the research needed to fulfill these traits for the rest of the animal lineup I mentioned as well as reference images for whomever built those impeccable models. If I was better at modeling I would offer to do that as well but I am by no means an artist. 

 

were there any animals I named that you do not approve of Dunk?

 

​[re-posted for reference]

 

Prey                                                                   Predator

 

Aurochs                                                             Timber Wolf

Bezoar Ibex (goat)                                         Fox

WIld Boar                                                          Mountain Lion

Mouflon (sheep ancestor)                          Owl

White Tailed Deer                                           Falcon

American Bison                                               Snake

Red JungleFowl (chicken)                             Crocodile

Mallard Duck                                                    Wild Cat (typically known in Great Britain and its also endangered...   )

Przewalski Horse                                            Bear

American Wild Turkey                                   Badger

Eastern Cotton Tail

Pheasant

I have been seed busting all day and have only found these two seeds Kitty. One was not a bad spawn point but it actually crashed my game.

Bad Seeds

2411486809862782029

triggers game crash

6894595891353453974

treetop spawn (non fatal I lost about 1/4 health. I figured that spawning on a tree should be the same cause all the time)

-7584882269630403906

Top of a tree next to a ravine

-1255341030899943590

Top of a tree, fall damage 226

I have cycled through roughly 125 generated worlds thus far and still haven't found a seed that kills me yet. I am gathering a nice collection of seeds for the seed forum though, so that is nice I will be composing each seed as their own post as soon as I get bored with seed busting lol

Just thought I would add that the current terrain generation methods seem very rock solid minus the occasional floating islands which I'm sure are super hard to get rid of anyway.

Feel free to send me other debugging or generation type tasks if you want, I am happy to act as a live beta tester for you if you want testing or simulation done.

It looks like your images are broken. Could you try uploading them to a 3rd party site and then linking them? I'd be happy to update your posts afterwards so the image properly displays.

 

I think I fixed them now... sorry. I posted them to a third party site yesterday and I must have grabbed the wrong link when I put them here

I know I would buy it myself. You could develop it in unity3d and have ultimate finite control over every aspect instead of needing to force a nightmarishly poorly coded game to do your bidding. If Bioxx does decide to try this I have a suggestion for him: think about cubic chunks Bioxx. It will reduce the amount of active blocks significantly and will make creating realistically scaled environments so much easier...

Heck if it isn't super difficult to do (I have seen it done in early minecraft..) try out cubic chunks in the current TFC incarnation

I finished a corner of the exterior sheathing... what do you guys think? do you love it or hate it? 

 

First floor walls are framed out! it took much longer than the basement because of the hordes of zombies I was also fighting while building lol. Now to sheath the exterior and setup the ceiling

I like your ideas. You should start an addon project, I am pretty sure people would help you. That would really bring animal life to tfc. I love the work that dunk has been doing, I just wish it was already done.

 

I would definitely like to be able to help dunk with the mobs for TFC and provide an example of my suggested code but I don't know if I have the time to do so I have a three year old, a full time job, I am the writer of a comic which will be released early to mid summer 2015 ANNNNND I am looking for a job as a programmer since I am freshly out of college and have yet to find a job in my field. I am planning on creating a mod for TFC which will add traditional pagan rituals and sympathetic magic etc to the game whenever I get a spare moment lol. I will see if I can write something up for at least one prey and predator pair though.... any preferences?

Delvr, thank you for creating this as it truly brings my modpack to life! Nothing beats walking through a forest and finding a river spawned and waiting. I have found quite a few gems of rivers with nice extensive watersheds as a matter of fact! Very rarely the river spawns in a strange way like doubling back onitself to tightly to make sense but rivers like that are exceptionally rare anyway.

Well kitty I will get to seed busting to see if I can get you a few then! I will disable all the other mods too just in case they are influencing anything. Who knows, maybe I will find a real gem of a seed!

This looks awesome! I may be trying this out to help adjust my own WIP modpack so everything flows together better...

Some years ago Mojang made the marketing decision of making Minecraft worlds Infinite. For the point of view of the uninformed player it was great, they could walk forever and keep exploring a lot more of the same biomes.For anyone that knows a little bit of coding and want to create close systems, is a nightmare. Is the reason finite water does not work. If we had a finite world all kinds of calculations would be possible. it would be a lot easier to track animal movements, and things like Weather and climate.With a finite World we could calculate exactly how many animal of each species existed in that world and work from there. I am totally in favor of a modification of Minecraft that allowed for finite world and all the benefits that would arise from that.Just imagine a square 40K by 40K center around the 0.0 point, that would be 20K in each direction, more than enough for any single player or server.

When I started my tiny side project to program the best possible terrain generator I made a similar decision minus one important detail... Infinite worlds are highly desired so it still needs to be procedural. The way I decided to solve this was to generate "islands" in their entirely one at a time. The user would use the very same seed system and all coding for the terrain would be essentially the same but the user would specify the "island" size based on categorical presets like desert island or continent etc. as well as the intended climate type again from a catagory list so if you wanted arctic or equatorial you got it the game would then generate the terrain all up front based on the seed and place rivers, biomes etc where they should actually be on such an island if they were to be there. The best part of that system was the fact that it used simplex noise, brownian filtering and four categorical erosion filters that made the terrain really come to life. With all that work done up front you could easily jump in and play and experience virtually no processor lag while exploring.But this has almost nothing to do with animals or their breeding so let's try to get back on topic The way I would solve the population control problem would be to first tweak the ratios to suit game play. Then I would pull from the time control that Tfc has already built in to manage the appropriate population adjustments. I personally would first try out the predator /prey interaction through a few dozen shell worlds with excelerated times and tweak the hunger/ ratios/ aggression/ strength etc until it was allowing for a self maintaining population balance within the test environment. From there I would allow a few dozen simulations process through about a decade of TFC time with logging enabled for population count.With data in hand at that point I would just allow the game to take the elapsed time and adjust the population per chunk based on the average shifts discovered through testing. This would replicate the illusion of an active population without wasting processor or memory resources. But that is just how I would handle it myself. I'm sure there are probably some ways to shortcut the process and still make it reasonably believable.

Kitty,

You have made a valiant effort to thwart this exploitive piece of software and I applaud you for that. May I suggest an additional seed source to pull from? Use a seed generated from the theoretical max flop count on the computer running the minecraft virtual machine as well as a precise bit count of active memory at initial render time and then pass it through a 256 bit RSA encryption to spit out the actual seed used to create the secure item id's. It would be a virtually instant calculation at the generation point of the world and would be impossible to duplicate as the system will never be in the same physical state again

Try to work around that one tetrified

Would spawning underwater count even if you can surface? I have gotten a few where I was a long way from any land before and relatively near the ocean floor...

And builds like my realistic survival house would lead to sudden baldness and eye gouging! Lol

For me this crashes when I try to run it. I did not include the following mods Special Mobs , Special AI, Smooth bedrock, Stalker creeper, and Zombie awareness. I downloaded all the mods from your links and if it brought me to to the homepage i downloaded the latest version of that mod. I am using TFC 79.15.538 with Forge 10.13.2.1272.

We are actually now only waiting on an update on the streams mod from what I can tell so when that is done we will be good to go for TFC++ 79.17 I have been watching like a hawk since the Tfc update for these tfc specific mod updates to come through. I will add a note to the top of the post to make sure no one else has this problem. Sorry about the confusion. I also have been working on the configs and will be uploading that soon as well.

Ok, fine... We will attack them but what do we do about their ship? They almost boiled are oceans away before just because they were looking for their humpbacked friends here on earth. I am still frightened at the potential backlash here!

While in real life mutton does taste very different from goat, our taste system really has no way to believably reflect that. Take a look at the different taste profiles we have for all the meats. They're all almost identical. In fact,

 

Pork, Fish, Chicken, Mutton and Horse Meat are all exactly the same.

Beef and Venison are almost identical, with the only difference being 5 points from sweetness.

 

The only proteins that are visibly different from the others are soybeans, eggs and calamari.

 

A predatory system is also not feasible to implement because it only reflects a negative effect on population, and since there is no good way to make animals breed in the wild, we have no positive population effect to try and counteract it.

 

I will definitely look into the taste system so I have a better idea how it works. It seems strange though that you have all of the taste categories (although I am not sure if Umami is included..) but that those meats taste the same.... 

is the taste system explained in the wiki?

 

as far as breeding in the wild if you simply provide each animal the ability to break specific blocks and obtain food from them and  allow them to breed based on some sort of population limiter as mentioned above. I know that Herdcraft allows animals to breed in the wild and that seems not to be very resource intensive as far as I can tell so you may be able to model your wild breeding from that. 

Aggressive wild animals is also already planned. That's why all animals have an aggression modifier value. It just hasn't been implemented yet.

 

We specifically avoided a very wide variety of animals in TFC because we want to encourage players to "Catch 'em all." Each animal that has the ability to be domesticated has it's own specific purpose, and we intentionally did not add animals with a duplicate purpose.

 

Cows are a source of milk.

Sheep are a source of wool.

Pigs are an extremely plentiful source of food.

Horses/Donkeys are a method of transportation.

Chickens are a source of eggs and feathers.

 

I see. You do need to think about this fact though, you already have put a huge effort into the taste system and mutton tastes hugely different than goat, as does duck from chicken etc. and if you are encouraging the "catch em all" mentality than look at the source.... what are they up to like 750? lol. I know that we should not have anywhere near that many animals in game but 10 prey and 10 predators would be fun and still relatively simple I would imagine especially if the game uses some variation of a Finite State Machine for its AI processes because AI functions would be reusable. to explain what I mean i will just post my animal list here:

 

note (I was hoping all of these animals could be bred and domesticated)

 

Prey                                                                   Predator

 

Aurochs                                                             Timber Wolf

Bezoar Ibex (goat)                                             Fox

WIld Boar                                                           Mountain Lion

Mouflon (sheep ancestor)                                  Owl

White Tailed Deer                                              Falcon

American Bison                                                 Snake

Red JungleFowl (chicken)                                 Crocodile

Mallard Duck                                                      Wild Cat (typically known in Great Britain and its also endangered... )

Przewalski Horse                                               Bear

American Wild Turkey                                       Badger

Eastern Cotton Tail

Pheasant

 

 

the nice thing about this list is the way these animals interact. all of these prey are eaten readily by one or more predators. This builds in your population control and creates the element of danger in wandering the forest. variations based on climate would add a nice touch but I was not going to try and be heavy handing in my suggestion in that regard. I hope that at least some of this Idea sparks something for you guys in the dev team.

I think they key "immersion breaking" factor here is that wild animals and domestic animals look exactly the same.

 

The only real solution to this would be to implement some sort of system where world generated animals use a "wild animal" texture, and then when a baby animal is born, it stores a generation number. So world generated animals would be gen 0, if they had babies it would be gen 1, if gen 1's had babies they'd be gen 2, etc. We would likely just make the generation number 1+ the highest generation parent. So Gen 0 + Gen 1 would still give a Gen 2.

 

From there we could use a texture multiplier system like we do with cooking food to determine the texture of the adult animal, being a blend of the "wild" texture and the "domestic" texture until the generation is say like 3. So gen 0 use just the wild texture, gen 1 use a blend of the two that's more wild than domestic, gen 2 uses a blend thats more domestic than wild, and gen 3+ just use domestic.

 

Edit: In case it's not obvious, this is essentially what Dunk was already planning on doing.

 

 

I think that will definitely help but one of the other things which causes a bit of the immersion breaking is the lack of aggression on behalf of the animals. true wild boars are terrifyingly dangerous to encounter and can easily kill a single human which is why boar hunters have the saying "pick the best tree before you shoot" because if you miss you wont have the extra millisecond to decide where to flee. also, I was hoping for a broader selection of animal types which were representative of important agricultural animals which influenced human development such as goats which are as popular if not more so than sheep but lack representation in the game. but it is good to hear that dunk is planning to do something about the appearance issue though

What type of bushes are those? They look good, and you have found a lot of them.

Those are raspberries and blackberries. I usually spent a few in game weeks just following the coastline and weaving inland if I run out of that looking for seeds so I tend to gather a very wide variety of seeds, bushes and fruit tree saplings as well as plenty of each specimen. It's not the easiest way to play but I tend to manage eek through my first winter in a spot the really suits me. I have strict requirements for a homestead site including elevated water source, decent flat ground near by and a northern z coords as I do love seasons and the challenge.Oh btw the other light green ones are gooseberries and I found several patches of those in my pre Stone Age nomadic period.

I was getting really bored with vanilla and began trying to assemble a mod pack when I realized this mod contained 90% of what was looking for. I tried out terrafirmacraft during the early stages when standing in water replenished your thirst bar but got my character stomped all over. I went on hiatus for a while and then began to look into it again. I really love the way the system plays out. I have been a Tfc player since.

All of the wood in there so far is pure spruce planks... Very time consuming but aesthetically pleasing. I tried the support beams but they didn't seem to look as good to me.

Interesting take, but not sure how much can be implimented. You state size as the most straight forward, when it really isn't and to make it a simple Mendelian trait would infact reduce the size variety in game. Size in real life is a multifactorial trait, hence the gradient of sizes we see. I haven't looked at the code to have the slightest clue how it is determined, but I do know there is variety of sizes in the animals. Mendelian would give us at best 3 sizes depending on haplotype. Calculating a multifactorial inheritance would be far less efficient than other methods that would give the appearance of the same thing.I think Mendelian genetics could be applied to animals in interesting ways to add a bit of variety to them. Say a breeding trait. Dominant dominant would have a 10% chance to have a larger litter. So every baby born would have a 10% chance to spawn in a duplicate animal. Dominant recessive would have 5% and recessive recessive would have 0%.Framiliarity could have similar trait that had a 0-10% chance to have its familiarity its increase twice as much. Or production where you have chance to milk cow twice in a 24 hour period or to drop more wool in a shear. I think size and colour/pattern are handled quite adequately by current methods. As for the domestication of wild animals taking you out of your immersion, I don't see much of a solution. Obviously domestication took a really long time. A great deal of this process is hypothesised to be due/hastened by the inbreeding of the animals. There is no real way to model this in a game in a way or timeframe that is even remotely realistic. Just think of them of as feral not wild.

I realize that size is multi factorial and only provides limited size adjustments based on genetics but I was more suggesting the Mendelian model of dominant vs recessive inheritance.You are right as to the timescale being an issue if the changes were small or if the time was implemented in a normal scale but both of these do not have to be true. The changes can be artificially accelerated by making each generation significantly demonstrative of the resultant trait. As far as the traits which are currently used, I believe they are executed well and size is especially so. I am not saying at all that dunk or the rest of the team are not doing a great job but I do think having a more wild form with a bit of natural variation that we could then breed into different varieties would awesome.