Religion

[DoodTheDud 29]

May I ask why?

It's a very controversial topic. It's entirely understandable that they wouldn't want to touch it. That said, I'd love to see some religion-flavored items so people can better set up their own. It would cost stuff and give no real benefit. It'd be mostly a "for luck" thing if in Singleplayer and a "community" thing in SMP.

Having a god that interacts with the MC universe would be silly though. In my opinion.

[Bedgar 13]

Shrine of Talos?

I think our discussion about why religion should or should not be a part of tfc should be sorted our before people start proposing religions

alright guys we all know this topic isn’t going anywhere, just leave it alone so it can die in peace

I believe someone say something similar to you in another topic but I could be wrong .

We are having a debate. The fact that it is not advancing doesn’t mean it should die off. we are just waiting for new ideas and arguments to persuade the other side or find common ground. We aren’t religious fanatics and hardcore atheists here.

[mrpwase 66]

It's a very controversial topic. It's entirely understandable that they wouldn't want to touch it. That said, I'd love to see some religion-flavored items so people can better set up their own. It would cost stuff and give no real benefit. It'd be mostly a "for luck" thing if in Singleplayer and a "community" thing in SMP.

Having a god that interacts with the MC universe would be silly though. In my opinion.

Yeah I suppose. I don't know if there are any pagans or Wiccans here though, but I really don't see the controversy in adding mechanics about primitive religion and spirituality. It's like getting angry at Gunnerkrigg Court (where my avatar is from ) for referencing all kinds of mythical creatures, and having a American Indian folklore figure as a main character. When I saw the ritual and spirit mechanics in UnReal World, I didn't think 'ha wow religious nutjob alert!', I thought 'that's a really cool way to give a sense of wildnerness survival'.

I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about more organised religion themed mechanics (like building a church and praying in it, having priests etc.) but that kind of thing is a) a lot more complicated to construct game rules for and b ) a lot more recent and relevant to modern religion, and therefore actually like to cause controversy among players (especially given the average Minecraft player )

So it's not really a god interacting with the universe that I'm suggesting - it's spirits that can be asked for help or placated to give a temporary advantage. I don't want a dude in a beard reaching down from the clouds and zapping a wolf with a thunderbolt

[Bedgar 13]

And I'd say I'm well within my rights to draw comparisons between TFC and anything I want, and vanilla MC is one of those things.

i could also compare a comedy movie with a horror movie and say that its normal for a comedy movie to have blood and gore but that dosent make it true.

It's a very controversial topic. It's entirely understandable that they wouldn't want to touch it. That said, I'd love to see some religion-flavored items so people can better set up their own. It would cost stuff and give no real benefit. It'd be mostly a "for luck" thing if in Singleplayer and a "community" thing in SMP.

Having a god that interacts with the MC universe would be silly though. In my opinion.

It’s not really controversial it’s just role playing. You don’t really need the special blocks you can make do with what is already present to make an alter. It requires more imagination (and if your god actually gives you stuff using the almighty NEI then you also need more selfcontrol) but this way if you want to follow a belief you are free to chose the one you want

[DoodTheDud 29]

Yeah I suppose. I don't know if there are any pagans or Wiccans here though, but I really don't see the controversy in adding mechanics about primitive religion and spirituality. It's like getting angry at Gunnerkrigg Court (where my avatar is from ) for referencing all kinds of mythical creatures, and having a American Indian folklore figure as a main character. When I saw the ritual and spirit mechanics in UnReal World, I didn't think 'ha wow religious nutjob alert!', I thought 'that's a really cool way to give a sense of wildnerness survival'.

I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about more organised religion themed mechanics (like building a church and praying in it, having priests etc.) but that kind of thing is a) a lot more complicated to construct game rules for and b ) a lot more recent and relevant to modern religion, and therefore actually like to cause controversy among players (especially given the average Minecraft player )

So it's not really a god interacting with the universe that I'm suggesting - it's spirits that can be asked for help or placated to give a temporary advantage. I don't want a dude in a beard reaching down from the clouds and zapping a wolf with a thunderbolt

Perhaps. I like the community-made rules with mod-available tools for it. But performing some simple ritual for a vague spiritual concept that has a chance to give like a 0.01% chance of getting slightly more yield when mining ores or something wouldn't be bad either.

[Bedgar 13]

what if i told you that this mechanic was already implemented? Go take a dip in lava and when you come back you have a chance to get 0.01% chance of getting slightly more yield when mining ores.

[MDub 68]

While I sorta like the idea of having shrines either spawn or as craftable objects in the game, and receiving buffs for them, I think a critical element is lacking. In games like Elders Scrolls and others where you typically do some type of dungeon diving, or RP, the effects of the 'shrine of talos' sorta of thing fits, because it matches the mythos of the rest of the game. Gods and the like are critical aspects of the story line for those games. While this might have been a great idea had TFC been built as a RPG, the fact is, its not. It would be adding a superfluous game mechanic. While im totally in favor of finding elegant ways to introduce buffs on the characters such as slightly increased armor, fire immunity, or increase health regen.. the potions mechanic accomplishes that already. I havent really tried anything with potions in TFC, but if they are not currently working, and no plans exist to include them, perhaps this thread could be reborn under 'Potions' to make it slightly less hot button-ish.

[DoodTheDud 29]

what if i told you that this mechanic was already implemented? Go take a dip in lava and when you come back you have a chance to get 0.01% chance of getting slightly more yield when mining ores.

Exactly. Hence the "luck" thing I mentioned before.

While I sorta like the idea of having shrines either spawn or as craftable objects in the game, and receiving buffs for them, I think a critical element is lacking. In games like Elders Scrolls and others where you typically do some type of dungeon diving, or RP, the effects of the 'shrine of talos' sorta of thing fits, because it matches the mythos of the rest of the game. Gods and the like are critical aspects of the story line for those games. While this might have been a great idea had TFC been built as a RPG, the fact is, its not. It would be adding a superfluous game mechanic. While im totally in favor of finding elegant ways to introduce buffs on the characters such as slightly increased armor, fire immunity, or increase health regen.. the potions mechanic accomplishes that already. I havent really tried anything with potions in TFC, but if they are not currently working, and no plans exist to include them, perhaps this thread could be reborn under 'Potions' to make it slightly less hot button-ish.

Honestly, I just want more themed decorations. I dunno about minecraft potions, but perhaps combining herbs and such could be added. Though shrubs and roots and such would need to be added to get anything realistic.

Such as Aloe in desert biomes that can be used for slight healing/short regeneration boost.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

we are not even TOUCHING this topic.

The developer has spoken!

Now seriously... I don't like the idea of any kind of religion added in game. Lets say two fighters pray to the same god to win the battle they are gonna have; none of them get any kind of bonus, but they don't know. They fight, and -obviously- one of them wins. The winner will think he won because he prayed to hi god and will tell to his community that, if they pray, they will won any battle. The other will have no chance to think as he died in battle, so he can't tell the people that it doesn't really work. That is how, historically, religions mostly origined; people praying for something to a god, luckily getting it the first time, telling the others it works. Or other case; one hunter prays for luck to a spirit, and, although he doesn't really receive anything, he happens to get a great deer for the lunch, and advise other hunters to pray to spirits before they go hunting.

Some players in TFcraft may, as well, think that if they build an altar in the game and sacrifice animals or gems in it, they will get a secret bonus the game won't tell them about. It may work for them, it may not. They have the freedom to believe what they want.

So, my point is, I don't like this to be added as a real game mechanic; however, it fits with the game in a certain point, and the players can, if they want, play the game as if they beliefs were a real game mechanic. If they know how to, they may even add themself to the mod a mechanic that worked like their beliefs. It may be a little more complicated for the SMP... however, the players will find the way to make it work.

[MDub 68]

Honestly, I just want more themed decorations. I dunno about minecraft potions, but perhaps combining herbs and such could be added. Though shrubs and roots and such would need to be added to get anything realistic.

I've been 'praying' for minecraft statues for ever.... Perhaps the shrines could be 2 block tall 1 block wide and deep craftable items, which look like statues and have a slot in them when opened like a crafting table, which one could place a potion in over night and have the effects duration/power increased slightly from a standard potion? Maybe that second part was a poor idea, but the shrines/statues thing would be killer... Can anyway say Castle Gargoyles?

[Endless_Riddles 0]

Early religion has been around since mesopatamia and cave paintings so to say that it wouldnt be realistic is completely false as it is an established part of all communities and races. And as steel has been dated back to 4000 years ago it would fit in nicely with the timeline as a nomadic tribal religion, not an established relion such as christianity. It was used to explain natural events such as the seasons and tides so in a sense that having a shrine to Gaia (Greek God) near a field of wheat would add realism to the game as it brings back the mindset of ancient humans. Now the benefits should not be posted anywhere and they should be kept secret (like exact durabilities) so if a field of wheat grows particularly fast or only seems to the player can drawn their own conclusions.

If added in the agriculture overhaul it would add a more tribe like feel to the game

Also on an unrelated note there should be more punishments for dying

[Bedgar 13]

Medicine belongs to another thread (which already exists btw) and decorations belong to another thread.

[mrpwase 66]

The developer has spoken!

Now seriously... I don't like the idea of any kind of religion added in game. Lets say two fighters pray to the same god to win the battle they are gonna have; none of them get any kind of bonus, but they don't know. They fight, and -obviously- one of them wins. The winner will think he won because he prayed to hi god and will tell to his community that, if they pray, they will won any battle. The other will have no chance to think as he died in battle, so he can't tell the people that it doesn't really work. That is how, historically, religions mostly origined; people praying for something to a god, luckily getting it the first time, telling the others it works. Or other case; one hunter prays for luck to a spirit, and, although he doesn't really receive anything, he happens to get a great deer for the lunch, and advise other hunters to pray to spirits before they go hunting.

Some players in TFcraft may, as well, think that if they build an altar in the game and sacrifice animals or gems in it, they will get a secret bonus the game won't tell them about. It may work for them, it may not. They have the freedom to believe what they want.

So, my point is, I don't like this to be added as a real game mechanic; however, it fits with the game in a certain point, and the players can, if they want, play the game as if they beliefs were a real game mechanic. If they know how to, they may even add themself to the mod a mechanic that worked like their beliefs. It may be a little more complicated for the SMP... however, the players will find the way to make it work.

I understand the idea that religions are man-made and the like. I don't care about that. MDub, what you said about potions illustrates my point - rituals that give little buffs are basically the same as potions that give little buffs. The only difference is the flavour. I feel that potions don't fit quite as well in the TFC ethos, although that is a personal feeling and not really grounded in much.

Don't get hung up on ideas about religious belief and spirituality. I'd like for this to be added to the game for cultural reasons, to give more of a sense of wilderness survival and make the game feel more earthy. If people on SMP want to roleplay around that, that's really cool and I'd love to see that, but I'm primarily interested in the mechanics.

Hiding the benefits to rituals is interesting - performing a sacrifice to the spirit of the hunt and then trying to see if you're better or worse next time you track down an animal would be cool. It would have a similar feel to not knowing exactly how strong blue steel is compared to iron or what have you - TFC players shouldn't have such a concrete understanding of the metagame and focus on in-game experience.

so in a sense that having a shrine to Gaia (Greek God) near a field of wheat would add realism to the game as it brings back the mindset of ancient humans. Now the benefits should not be posted anywhere and they should be kept secret (like exact durabilities) so if a field of wheat grows particularly fast or only seems to the player can drawn their own conclusions.

That would be cool! Just the thought of building little things like that and having them have small in-game benefits is awesome.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Look guys. Religion is a controversial topic. We can't make anything remotely similar to real life and once you start making your own things up, it gets rather complicated and out of hand. As for bonuses for religion, we do NOT want TFC to be a grinding game and we want to eliminate all traces of luck involved. We do not believe finding ores is a luck based mechanic, as it is your initiative to find them. Anything that can be achieved by tilting your head up and talking to the sky is something we don't want.

[mrpwase 66]

Look guys. Religion is a controversial topic. We can't make anything remotely similar to real life and once you start making your own things up, it gets rather complicated and out of hand. As for bonuses for religion, we do NOT want TFC to be a grinding game and we want to eliminate all traces of luck involved. We do not believe finding ores is a luck based mechanic, as it is your initiative to find them. Anything that can be achieved by tilting your head up and talking to the sky is something we don't want.

Fair enough.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

why does it seem that nearly every post i read eternal undeath goes out of his way to put new ideas that add an interesting mechanic to the game to death. this idea is interesting an he doesn't say that every time u pray u get free stuff and if u don't like the idea of invincibility for a day, which does seem a lil imbalanced, then just disagree with that bit. having some sort of god or higher being to worship has been a round for thousands of years its what society is made from it didn't give u free stuff however for many many years people believe it gave pretty much everything on this planet and most holidays people in the western world enjoy are because of these religions why cant TFC have some gods? they sound like nice gods

http://terrafirmacra...8-storage-woes/

http://terrafirmacra...lien-new-realm/

http://terrafirmacra...g-to-the-world/

Note the above. They are new ideas that got my instant support because they were useful, well thought out, balanced, and many other positive adjectives.

You know when I go out of my way to put a new and 'interesting' mechanic to death? When it's shit.

Make a good suggestion here and I'll be onboard like it's a pirate ship made of weed and chocolate with a crew of hot model strippers.

Make a bad suggestion here and I put on my assassin mask.

That's how it works.

we are not even TOUCHING this topic.

I smell locked thread inbound in 3...

[mrpwase 66]

You know when I go out of my way to put a new and 'interesting' mechanic to death? When it's shit.

Make a good suggestion here and I'll be onboard like it's a pirate ship made of weed and chocolate with a crew of hot model strippers.

Make a bad suggestion here and I put on my assassin mask.

That's how it works.

No

No no no no no

I get enough of that superstitious twattle in my RL life, I don't need it being incorporated into my escapist fantasy gaming as well.

On the mechanics side of why this idea eats it's own popped zits, a one-time effort should not yield random free crap for life because that's broken, even if you do only make it once a week. Also, with the concept of deities comes the concept of an afterlife, by necessity.

How then do you explain that you respawn in the world you died in, regardless of whether that''s the overworld or the nether? And even if you changed the mechanics so that you respawn in the nether when you die, wouldn't you be rather tempted to go see this deity in person? I know I would. So I'd go traipsing around the nether and either I don't find this god which means that the altar is totally meaningless, or worse yet I DO find this god, and Dunk tears his hair out because programming a mob of that nature is sure to give him haemolacria (look it up). And Notch only knows what sort of implications managing to kill that mob would carry...

This is not a measured or constructive response to the idea of adding religious mechanics to TFC. This is 'I don't like religion, if you did add it this is how it would go and that's wrong, here's some other things you didn't mention I've just made up that are bad ideas, in conclusion this is a bad idea'.

If you disagree with the idea and want to argue against it, make your point and back it up with an argument. Suggest ways the idea could be improved. Don't just dismiss it out of hand with insults, that won't get us anywhere.

I thought this was a cool idea, but if the dev team aren't interested then that's fair enough. I just hate ignorance, and EternalUndeath you're really pissing me off.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

This is not a measured or constructive response to the idea of adding religious mechanics to TFC. This is 'I don't like religion, if you did add it this is how it would go and that's wrong, here's some other things you didn't mention I've just made up that are bad ideas, in conclusion this is a bad idea'.

If you disagree with the idea and want to argue against it, make your point and back it up with an argument. Suggest ways the idea could be improved. Don't just dismiss it out of hand with insults, that won't get us anywhere.

I thought this was a cool idea, but if the dev team aren't interested then that's fair enough. I just hate ignorance, and EternalUndeath you're really pissing me off.

I did back it up with arguments. I listed why it was a bad idea both on the lore level and on the game level. And there is no way this idea could be improved that I could find, other than a thread lock and 2 shotgun shells to the nape of the neck, aimed up.

I assure you, if I could think of ANY ways that this could have been turned into a good idea, I would have been much kinder about this and I would have listed them - I'm sure everyone on this forum is well aware by now of how much I love adding my 2 cents into an idea.

The fact that I cannot think of any way to improve this even in the slightest is why I'm crucifying it this way (pun only half intended).

[mrpwase 66]

I did back it up with arguments. I listed why it was a bad idea both on the lore level and on the game level. And there is no way this idea could be improved that I could find, other than a thread lock and 2 shotgun shells to the nape of the neck, aimed up.

I assure you, if I could think of ANY ways that this could have been turned into a good idea, I would have been much kinder about this and I would have listed them - I'm sure everyone on this forum is well aware by now of how much I love adding my 2 cents into an idea.

The fact that I cannot think of any way to improve this even in the slightest is why I'm crucifying it this way (pun only half intended).

In which case what did you think of the ideas put forward in the rest of the thread?

Also:

other than a thread lock and 2 shotgun shells to the nape of the neck, aimed up.

What is this shit?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

In which case what did you think of the ideas put forward in the rest of the thread?

Also:

What is this shit?

...I like the stained glass. That's a good idea.

It can stay.

I won't be replying to this thread any more, since you and I arguing are the only thing seemingly stopping this thread from falling to the last page.

Lets go find a better idea to go exchange witticisms over, hmm?

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

I hate to post on an idea that should go to the last page, but...

So... you guys filled most of the forth page of this thread with this, as i can see... and mostly with this non-sense discussion. I'm not saying i am more mature that you two, as i'm only 16 years old, while you two are... not . However... that was pretty much pointless, and didn't helped very much to the thread...

It would be a good idea that, if you guys are disposed to, instead of writing all this you have to say in this non really related thread, go to the messenger of the forum -or any other private chat you can find-, orderly discuss it there, and try to find a solution that you're both comfortable with. By the way, i'd ask people with any issues between them to do the same thing. This is just to avoid discussions between members to flood up threads.

[mrpwase 66]

I hate to post on an idea that should go to the last page, but...

Yeah, I PMed EternalUndeath about it, I'll keep the personal stuff out of the threads. The rest of the discussion was relevant to the thread, however.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

religion deserves zero automatic respect, just like ANY OTHER idea someone would propose.

whenver it rears its head, it should be loudly denounced just like any other insane idea would be.

nuff said

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Oh, i see. So, you, Kotoroshinoto, are a troll wannabe. Yeah, i'm gonna ignore your posts now... No offense, but a discussion with a troll is as useful as hammering a nail in your head.

/thread

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Oh, i see. So, you, Kotoroshinoto, are a troll wannabe. Yeah, i'm gonna ignore your posts now... No offense, but a discussion with a troll is as useful as hammering a nail in your head.

/thread

i'm not trolling, i'm 100% serious. Do you accuse everybody that loudly and vehemently disagrees with you as being a troll simply because they make you angry or appear flippant?

Have you never heard this before from the published atheist authors and public speakers? an active response is the only thing that will wake people up, they'll tolerate it forever otherwise.

Persecution isn't the answer, that just strengthens group ties and deepen's the afflicted in their faith, I don't advocate complete intolerance either, but automatic tolerance is just as dumb as persecution.

I REALLY and STRONGLY do not wish to have religion invade my games as well as constantly trying to invade my life. I have enough frustration dealing with the religious in real life, I don't desire it as a game mechanic in a game that has absolutely zero need or benefit from it. Buffing mechanics could be implemented in SO MANY other ways that don't require ritualistic decor and behavior.

P.S.

incidentally on the servers I play on with my friends, the following is known: if you build nearby a claim of mine and your structure contains a cross, star of david or crescent or some other symbol that is clearly religious, i will take the offending decoration down once and leave a sign as warning, if it is put back the building is detonated.

^ people like me (strongly atheist) and the opposite (highly religious) are probably the reason the devs dont want to touch this issue.