Religion

[Buzhwaz 17]

using stone, jewels, and torches, you craft an altar.

if you make a sacrifice/offering to it, you get a random buff. maybe you get a % of health and food restored. maybe a buff to damage taken/given.

each use of the altar has a % chance of a miracle occurring... the altar might drop a blessed sword or helmet. or maybe make you invincible for a day.

you can only use altars once a week, no matter how many alters you build.

[ancientpower 32]

I dunno, TFC doesn't really have the roguelike-ish feel that deems a pantheon of gods, or even just sacrifices, as a necessary feature. Maybe if it was a little more fleshed out it could be viable, but giving people free weapons and armor(and definitely invincibility), is pretty unbalanced.

[bsb23 303]

No, I'm not going to worship a minecraft god or watch anyone else do it, that's just plain creepy dude. I understand what you want with this but trust me this isn't the way to get it.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

No

No no no no no

I get enough of that superstitious twattle in my RL life, I don't need it being incorporated into my escapist fantasy gaming as well.

On the mechanics side of why this idea eats it's own popped zits, a one-time effort should not yield random free crap for life because that's broken, even if you do only make it once a week. Also, with the concept of deities comes the concept of an afterlife, by necessity.

How then do you explain that you respawn in the world you died in, regardless of whether that''s the overworld or the nether? And even if you changed the mechanics so that you respawn in the nether when you die, wouldn't you be rather tempted to go see this deity in person? I know I would. So I'd go traipsing around the nether and either I don't find this god which means that the altar is totally meaningless, or worse yet I DO find this god, and Dunk tears his hair out because programming a mob of that nature is sure to give him haemolacria (look it up). And Notch only knows what sort of implications managing to kill that mob would carry...

[ancientpower 32]

EternalUndeath, have you never played a game with a pantheon of deities? It's not really as ridiculous and outlandish as you make it out to be. Just look at DCSS for example, or pretty much any roguelike ever. I can see where OP's coming from, but it would need to be a completely different feature to work.

Edit: It seems everyone is taking this the wrong way which is ludicrous and extremely childish in a way. The OP isn't trying to convert you to Christianity, and he's not saying you get loads of free, valuable loot for worshiping a deity.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

gah kill it! kill it with fire!!!!

religion is DEFINITELY not needed in minecraft

i agree with etarnal completely

[Bedgar 13]

Ya dude I think pretty much everyone agrees. kill a cow and become invincible for a day is just plain wrong. If you want to worship a god make your own alter and use that as an excuse to spawn stuff with NEI but don’t add a feature that would totally ruin the feel of tfc.

[Buzhwaz 17]

hmm...sounds like you guys are really close to loving this idea. maybe i can refine it. how about....implement volcanoes...then make it so i can craft a virgin out of sugar, wool, and a cherry....and toss her in. then there's a % chance the gods will anoint me as emperor of spacetime. thoughts?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

hmm...sounds like you guys are really close to loving this idea. maybe i can refine it. how about....implement volcanoes...then make it so i can craft a virgin out of sugar, wool, and a cherry....and toss her in. then there's a % chance the gods will anoint me as emperor of spacetime. thoughts?

Sounds slightly more rational than the OP, at least.

EternalUndeath, have you never played a game with a pantheon of deities?

I've made it quite clear in the past that I'm an avid D&D player. That game has such an expansive dietic pantheon that they actually had to make a separate rulebook just for religions.

However, in a game like D&D where 'fantasy realism' is taken to practically fetishistic levels, it works. Both as a lore element and as a game mechanic.

In minecraft, even (or perhaps especially) TFC, neither of these are applicable. It makes no damn sense, and would be as useful to gameplay as replacing dirt with bedrock

[mrpwase 66]

I posted a thread previously about UnReal World, a roguelike set in a fictional ~1000AD Iron Age Finland. There are various rituals you can learn and perform to give you very small bonuses, or to help towards protecting yourself from danger. They take a bit of time to perform, so it's not as if they're something for nothing, and often you can go without them if you want a challenge. There's stuff like dedicating a kill to the spirit of the hunt, asking for protecting from danger as you sleep, or asking the spirit of the wild to bless your campfire.

Obviously it's another low-priority idea, but I think the stone-bronze-iron age feel of TFC would fit well with primitive religion. A free helmet or invincibility, no, but restoring a little bit of hunger or health sounds like a good idea. Maybe you could offer a sacrifice to make bears wary of your camp for one night, something like that.

And please don't oppose things like this based on your religious beliefs IRL. Little things like rituals giving you a small buff or protection contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the mod without breaking the game. I'm not religious, but I really love spiritual elements in games. Like I say, it shouldn't be a priority addition, but it would give the survival elements of the mod a lot of depth without unbalancing gameplay.

[nwaters 4]

why does it seem that nearly every post i read eternal undeath goes out of his way to put new ideas that add an interesting mechanic to the game to death. this idea is interesting an he doesn't say that every time u pray u get free stuff and if u don't like the idea of invincibility for a day, which does seem a lil imbalanced, then just disagree with that bit. having some sort of god or higher being to worship has been a round for thousands of years its what society is made from it didn't give u free stuff however for many many years people believe it gave pretty much everything on this planet and most holidays people in the western world enjoy are because of these religions why cant TFC have some gods? they sound like nice gods

[nwaters 4]

I posted a thread previously about UnReal World, a roguelike set in a fictional ~1000AD Iron Age Finland. There are various rituals you can learn and perform to give you very small bonuses, or to help towards protecting yourself from danger. They take a bit of time to perform, so it's not as if they're something for nothing, and often you can go without them if you want a challenge. There's stuff like dedicating a kill to the spirit of the hunt, asking for protecting from danger as you sleep, or asking the spirit of the wild to bless your campfire.

Obviously it's another low-priority idea, but I think the stone-bronze-iron age feel of TFC would fit well with primitive religion. A free helmet or invincibility, no, but restoring a little bit of hunger or health sounds like a good idea. Maybe you could offer a sacrifice to make bears wary of your camp for one night, something like that.

And please don't oppose things like this based on your religious beliefs IRL. Little things like rituals giving you a small buff or protection contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the mod without breaking the game. I'm not religious, but I really love spiritual elements in games. Like I say, it shouldn't be a priority addition, but it would give the survival elements of the mod a lot of depth without unbalancing gameplay.

this was posted as i was writing my last post and i agree with this completely

[Bedgar 13]

They take a bit of time to perform, so it's not as if they're something for nothing, and often you can go without them if you want a challenge.

This is tfc its all about servival. People shouldent be penalised beacause they whent mining instead of going "questing".

why does it seem that nearly every post i read eternal undeath goes out of his way to put new ideas that add an interesting mechanic to the game to death. this idea is interesting an he doesn't say that every time u pray u get free stuff and if u don't like the idea of invincibility for a day, which does seem a lil imbalanced, then just disagree with that bit.

Excluding the fact that eternal hates it other people also do. And just because it dosent work everytime dosent mean its not inbalanced it just means its inbalanced in a smaller scale. Invincibility for a day is not a litle inbalanced. Its game breaking inbalanced. pvp would be ruined and hardcore would be ruined.

[mrpwase 66]

This is tfc its all about servival. People shouldent be penalised beacause they whent mining instead of going "questing".

Well, that's the point. Say we're talking about a ritual to ward off bears. You catch a chicken and sacrifice it to the spirit of the wild or what have you, losing all the meat and feathers etc., and in return a small area around the sacrifice site will ward against hostile mobs for one night, allowing you to do some uninterrupted smithing or something. It's not unbalancing, it's a small gameplay mechanic that you can ignore, you're not penalised if you don't use it (compare with something like fishing), and it adds a lot to the early mankind/pre-Renaissance survival feel of the game.

Excluding the fact that eternal hates it other people also do. And just because it dosent work everytime dosent mean its not inbalanced it just means its inbalanced in a smaller scale. Invincibility for a day is not a litle inbalanced. Its game breaking inbalanced. pvp would be ruined and hardcore would be ruined.

I haven't seen a compelling argument against the idea per se from anyone in this thread, just disagreement with the idea of it being unbalanced. I agree that invincibility for a day is way too much. Smaller buffs and the like would not unbalance the game.

Imagine taking a few seconds to perform a ritual, standing over the body of your vanquished enemy in a PvP game and dedicating your kill to the spirit of battle. You get a little bit of your health back, and you feel like a badass. What's the problem?

[bsb23 303]

Always I still don't think this game is about history rather about survival the limit imposed (older than 400 years) is to keep people from trying to put modern ideas in a non-modern game thus why its called survival not "rewrite history". These small little buffs like that are just plain creepy it would make me feel like a bada** it would make me feel like I'm in a cult.

[Bedgar 13]

so your saying that a player has to hide in a man hole the whole night while another can go about his business just because he happened to see a chicken? also i do have a problem with people feeling better because they are standing over a body(not that they leave any body in minecraft) its creepy.

[mrpwase 66]

Always I still don't think this game is about history rather about survival the limit imposed (older than 400 years) is to keep people from trying to put modern ideas in a non-modern game thus why its called survival not "rewrite history". These small little buffs like that are just plain creepy it would make me feel like a bada** it would make me feel like I'm in a cult.

I presume you have no problems with enchantments in vanilla MC though? This idea is not forcing you to believe in paganism or anything like that, rituals and stuff like that wouldn't be necessary.

I don't see why the survival game ethos precludes an addition like this. It's another method to help the player eke out a living in a hostile world. The flavour of the addition, in my opinion, fits in with the primitive feel of the early game, which is why I mentioned UnReal World (set in the iron age of a primitive and backwards Finland). As for 'rewriting history' - TFC heavily features small groups of humans carving stone tools, hunting animals and building campfires, with a view to establishing smithies, farms etc., and producing better quality tools and armour, and regular supplies of food. In my mind that chimes pretty well with early human culture, which includes beliefs in spirits and stuff like that. Is that wrong?

so your saying that a player has to hide in a man hole the whole night while another can go about his business just because he happened to see a chicken? also i do have a problem with people feeling better because they are standing over a body(not that they leave any body in minecraft) its creepy.

Let me rephrase what you just posted - "so you're saying that a player has to hide in a man hole the whole night while another can go about his business just because he happened to find some surface rock and craft a javelin? Also I do have a problem with people feeling better because they mined some stone, it's pathetic."

You can't say you like the idea of a survival game and then baulk at killing an opponent. I included that example as an illustration of what kind of things you might expect from this proposal - you probably already go 'ha! I beat you!' if you kill an opponent in PvP, this is just adding a small game mechanic to augment that.

I really get the feeling that some of you opposing this are doing so because of a dislike of religion. I don't think that's fair. I'm a nontheist, I dislike the ill effects of organised religion, but I have no problem with some cool spiritual lore and flavour in the media I consume, any more than I have a problem with magic or dragons.

Don't want to tread on anyone's toes, but I really like this idea and think it would be a cool addition, and I don't want to see people oppose it for invalid reasons.

[Bedgar 13]

Ok first of all vanilla mincraft is vanilla minecraft. We are talking about tfc here. I wouldn’t be surprised if zombies and skeletons disappear and are replaced with humans in the near future. When I was talking about "feeling better" I mean the health perks. I it’s somewhat normal to feel good about winning a fight but it doesn’t make you healthier. About hating religion, I’m kinda like you in that sense. the only difference is that i see it as a tool to enforce ethics and laws and nothing more. Magic and dragons are cool and all but that doesn’t mean I want to see them in tfc same goes for religion.

[Buzhwaz 17]

why does it seem that nearly every post i read eternal undeath goes out of his way to put new ideas that add an interesting mechanic to the game to death.

yeah. i've stopped reading that kid's posts. they always degenerate into some irrelevant spiteful drivel. he's just in that stage of growing up that thinks expressing yourself via insult makes you look clever. he'll grow out of it...or maybe he won't. maybe he'll stay douchy until he dies.

anyway. it's nice to see a little support for this idea. i thought having a religious element was valid for an iron-age type mod. there were a lot of really creative and weird religions at that time. and, for crying out loud, there are zombies and skeletons and nether men running around already...why is religion suddenly from left field?

if i've concocted a buff that you think unbalances the game, imagine a different buff...one that makes the idea work for you. fact is: primitive man worshipped things. gods, bears, etc. i was just trying to invent incentive for a player to follow a similar path.

[fred da kiko 28]

Shrine of Talos?

[DoodTheDud 29]

Being able to make altars, colored glass, and holy symbols, etc, sounds neat. I've been wanting to build a small church on my server. Actually making the "god" interact with the world seems silly.

It'd be neat to add a little flavor, but irksome to actually be trying to appease a "higher being" of some sort.

Hell, you could even add in sacrificing stuff to the altar if you want to. Have a special altar that allows burning materials for example. It'd be strictly for flavor, but lets people make demanding churches on servers for a little more immersion in communities.

Basically, to sum up: religion in TFC sounds neat.....as a flavor. Not as a mechanic.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

we are not even TOUCHING this topic.

[TheBlindPeople 31]

Anyone here play Unreal World? Nifty little survival sim based on Finland in the iron age. It has a mechanic of appeasing the spirits with rituals and sacrafices that provide small gifts to the player sometimes if they are happy maybe. It's a thematically swell mechanic that reenforces the feeling of being a nomad at the time.

In this mod it would provide a use for more esoteric materials. Gold has little use outside of weird alloys, and several materials have little use to them. Having a mechanic to use them would alleviate the issue of having those materials only serving to take up space. Understandably there is an opposition to having the mechanic relate to something one is opposed to in real life, so would this be an easier pill to swallow if it's just general nature spirits? Or perhaps a more tangible entity, like the entities of the End or Nether? Appease the Nether and gain access to something like Glowstone via some ritual. Could be neat.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

alright guys we all know this topic isnt going anywhere, just leave it alone so it can die in peace

[mrpwase 66]

Ok first of all vanilla mincraft is vanilla minecraft. We are talking about tfc here. I wouldn’t be surprised if zombies and skeletons disappear and are replaced with humans in the near future. When I was talking about "feeling better" I mean the health perks. I it’s somewhat normal to feel good about winning a fight but it doesn’t make you healthier. About hating religion, I’m kinda like you in that sense. the only difference is that i see it as a tool to enforce ethics and laws and nothing more. Magic and dragons are cool and all but that doesn’t mean I want to see them in tfc same goes for religion.

And I'd say I'm well within my rights to draw comparisons between TFC and anything I want, and vanilla MC is one of those things. Zombies and skeletons being replaced with other, more believable hostile mobs would be amazing. Nothing about that precludes mechanics based on primitive spirituality.

Say someone didn't think agriculture fit the theme of TFC, they view it as a metallurgy survival game. They wouldn't want to see agriculture in TFC. As it stands, they could throw away the seeds every time they pop tall grass, and would never have to see any element of the agriculture gameplay. Similarly, if you wouldn't appreciate a religious addition to TFC, you could just ignore it!

we are not even TOUCHING this topic.

May I ask why?

Anyone here play Unreal World? Nifty little survival sim based on Finland in the iron age. It has a mechanic of appeasing the spirits with rituals and sacrafices that provide small gifts to the player sometimes if they are happy maybe. It's a thematically swell mechanic that reenforces the feeling of being a nomad at the time.

Yeah mate I mentioned it I agree, it's a small but powerful addition to the atmosphere.