Body Temperature Mechanics and Implementation

[TonyLiberatto 364]

BODY TEMPERATURE MECHANICS AND IMPLEMENTATION With Pictures
 
 
v  This post is not to suggest Body Temperature. We already know is coming in the next release.Is about how it should be implemented:
v  New blocks items and devices to help preserve body temperature raise it or lower it.
v  I did some research on posts that already marginally talk about these ideas and will try to link to then.
v  world generation :
Ø   I should call attention to the fact that the equator is not a huge desert. On the contrary the equator is where all the rain forests are located: Amazonia, Congo, Indonesia and so on. Actually the biggest deserts are located on the tropic of cancer and Capricorn as North Africa and Australia. Note the red Line for the equator.

Ø  One other thing to consider is places like Alaska that are pretty up north but have huge forests and are rich in wildlife.
Ø   That said I believe we should have some kind of disadvantages for people that want to live too much north or south also some kind of problems for living on the equator like too much rain ( I have a friend from Brazil that use to live on the Amazonia, according to him people use to set appointments as before or after the rain as it would invariably rain every day in early afternoon) or diseases. To be honest is a lot easier to live on hot places then on cold climates.
v  Some suggestions for early game:
Ø  Thirst aggravation:
§  When over 35C the thirst bar would deplete twice as fast, so the player need to drink double the amount of water.
Ø  Scraped Hide: this low quality leather would be obtained just by scraping a hide with a knife.
§  Scrape Hide can be used to make a Cape and basic clothing (To keep game balancing you should not be able to make any kind of armor with it.
§  Scrape Hide can be used to make tents for night time (especially when travelling) there is a tread about that Here
§  Water bags: Heat will make you more thirst (historically the clay jug was never a portable thing as is very breakable) It should provide enough water for 2 days if no thirst aggravation.
Ø  Heat Sources: There is a tread about that Here: any source of fire raises ambient temperature around then.
§  Change Fire Pit to allow it to be fuelled for the night ( on single player if it gets too cold in the night you would wake up before morning, so no sleeping if is too cold.)
§  Add stone stove and ovens (Again we need a way to fuel then for the night and on more advanced versions (cast iron stove and ovens) 24 hours stocking. Tread about that Here
 
Ø  Hats: Anyone living on a hot weather knows how important that is: Maybe as a penalty for living in very hot biome any one without a Hat  under sunlight when over 35C (95F) would suffer slowness and have a thirst aggravation. The hat is not needed indoors or when mining.
§  Straw Hat would be easy to make but not very durable.  It eliminates slowness from Heat. 

§  Leather Hat more durable No slowness and only half thirst aggravation.
§  Leather Hat with cloth inside No slowness and no Thirst aggravation.
Ø  Clothing and outfits: there is a tread about that Here
§  An idea would be to have a way to create skins from inside the game ( no idea if is possible or how to make it work.

[Maga 99]

Off Topic but It's great to see the difference in your writing style since we've been talking about cooking. Bold titles and organized bullet points... much easier to follow. Well done.

 

I'm really hoping we get the opportunity to choose between good armor and heavy clothing that uses plenty of leather, cloth and feathers to craft. Perhaps a hard line debuff on players with no hat is a bit harsh... Bad enchantments that slowly get worse as you get more and more overheated or hypothermic combined with stuff like thirst bar decreasing faster in the heat and needing to eat my food in colder climates maybe?

 

(people who live in colder climates consume many more calories on a daily average just to maintain a working body temperature)

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Good point on needing more calories on cold climates.I read that the Eskimos would consume a lot of fat to survive the winter.

For the Hat remember that those penalties only kick when over 35C thats 95F and under sunlight. 

[Necoxus 54]

Nice post, don't think I have seen a post so fancy looking. Clothing was kinda discussed in this post:

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/6190-clothing-and-outfitsward-off-the-winters-cold-embrace/

 

Clothing should be in a different slots in my thinking, because people didn't get nude and put on armor for combat. They put the armor over they clothing, in most cases it was lighter clothing, but it was still there. As for the other ideas they look nice, and I don't really have anything to contribute on them.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

edited to include clothes thanks for info.

[Damjancd 12]

I love that you guys delve so deeply into details like this. It's exactly what attracted me the most to this mod, and what motivates me to check dunks and bioxxs Twitter account each day  This is what is largely missing in Minecraft, depth, meaning and detail. Topography, resources, biomes, different blocks, they almost don't matter at all in Minecraft. And then TFC comes, and introduces meaning to it all. I really hope that cold survival via clothing could be done primitively, as in, you could stuff your inventory with something to keep warm, you won't have as much space, but it will keep you warmer. You could also move slower of course. I REALLY hope layering is also introduced since it is essential for cold survival. 

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I think layering if ever added to the game will have to be done on the crafting of the piece.Like creating a warmer coat by combining 2 different coats into a improved one..

I am not a coder by i think to add the possibility to wear clothes and then add more clothes on top of the ones you are already using would be too hard to code.  

[AllenWL 186]

Do we need scraped hide? I think rawhide will work fine. That, and wool cloth, both which you can get pre-metal.

 

Clothing should be in a different slots in my thinking, because people didn't get nude and put on armor for combat. They put the armor over they clothing, in most cases it was lighter clothing, but it was still there. As for the other ideas they look nice, and I don't really have anything to contribute on them.

I agree, the main reason for this is that in most mods with temperature, armor is a pain. It makes you heat faster and cool faster, and wearing armor can make you die of heatstroke/frostbite before you even get to blows with the enemy.

 

But instead of having a 'clothing' slot and 'armor' slot, I think we should have a 'undergarment/light clothing' slot and a 'heavy clothing/armor' slot.

 

Why? like you said, most clothing worn under armor was light clothing, or thin clothing. If we could wear fluffy fur coats under our armor, we could just wear that, slap armor on top of the coat, then never take it off. But if all you could wear under the armor was your wool pants or leather tunic, it will eventually require you to take it off and don warmer clothing.

Also, we don't go around wearing nothing but a fur coat and pants.

 

 

I think layering if ever added to the game will have to be done on the crafting of the piece.Like creating a warmer coat by combining 2 different coats into a improved one..

I am not a coder by i think to add the possibility to wear clothes and then add more clothes on top of the ones you are already using would be too hard to code.  

I don't like this idea much, because it's like putting two shirts together and trying to put them both on, you know?

I'd rather just have to make a thicker coat instead. I mean, wearing two coats or wearing one coat as thick and warm as two coats... sounds about the same, doesn't it?

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Yes I agree with you. We need better ideas on how to implement clothing, specially how that is going to work with armor. 

to simplify clothes would have to work as a skin (as far as coding goes) or we would need to have 2 slots for each body part one for the clothes and one for armor.

Merging clothes and armor together is not a solution because you would have to create armors for cold weather and armors for hot weather.

You have to remember that we have winter and summer so is not a question of just warm clothes you also need light clothes.

An idea is to have armor not to interfere with body temperature ( witch is very unrealistic ). 

Armor made of metal is hot on the summer and cold on the winter.

 

As for the scraped hide this refer to the way cavemen first treat leather just by scraping the inside of the leather and removing unwanted hair read this http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/62686/education/leather_history.html

Raw hide without any treatment will rotten in a few days.

 

The history of leather has 3 basic stages:

• basic scraped and stretched leather not very durable
• scraped and stretched using the brains of the animal needs to be smoked to be waterproof 
• tan leather 

[Necoxus 54]

Do we need scraped hide? I think rawhide will work fine. That, and wool cloth, both which you can get pre-metal.

 

I agree, the main reason for this is that in most mods with temperature, armor is a pain. It makes you heat faster and cool faster, and wearing armor can make you die of heatstroke/frostbite before you even get to blows with the enemy.

 

But instead of having a 'clothing' slot and 'armor' slot, I think we should have a 'undergarment/light clothing' slot and a 'heavy clothing/armor' slot.

 

Why? like you said, most clothing worn under armor was light clothing, or thin clothing. If we could wear fluffy fur coats under our armor, we could just wear that, slap armor on top of the coat, then never take it off. But if all you could wear under the armor was your wool pants or leather tunic, it will eventually require you to take it off and don warmer clothing.

Also, we don't go around wearing nothing but a fur coat and pants.

 

 

I don't like this idea much, because it's like putting two shirts together and trying to put them both on, you know?

I'd rather just have to make a thicker coat instead. I mean, wearing two coats or wearing one coat as thick and warm as two coats... sounds about the same, doesn't it?

 

Allen, thats a better idea. Maybe if you wore the heavier clothing in your clothing slots it greys out your armor slots, so you can't wear armor over the heavy clothing. Also about the skin thing with the clothing, I mean having a smaller layer below were armor appears so you can wear both, and the clothing doesn't look big and bulky. I have seen other clothing mods that were just for looks, not for a purpose and when it was worn it was huge looking. The skin idea came from how most players texture clothing on their skins and it looks good most of the time.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I love that you guys delve so deeply into details like this. It's exactly what attracted me the most to this mod, and what motivates me to check dunks and bioxxs Twitter account each day

Now you gonna make me feel bad for not tweeting

 

 

Also, in response to the OP, I noticed you've linked one of my comments in there, but one from back in January. In the past couple weeks, I've restated my opinions and new ideas for the system. It's out there, but I've really gotta get started on my [actual] job [that I'm paid to do >.>], so I don't have the time to find it. Just letting you guys know it's there, if you wanna try to track it down.

[Maga 99]

Did you mention it in these forums of in another platform such as twitter. Just hoping for a point in the right direction because my thread that includes ovens and stoves relates to heating and I'd really like to know what the latest word from the devs is.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Did you mention it in these forums of in another platform such as twitter. Just hoping for a point in the right direction because my thread that includes ovens and stoves relates to heating and I'd really like to know what the latest word from the devs is.

Quite sure it was here on the forums. I haven't tweeted anything significant in a while.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I have included a picture of straw weaving to create a hat. 

[AllenWL 186]

Erm, I just remembered, but.... we have scraped hide.

 

it's a part of the leather processing process.

First you soak hide, then you scrape hide

[TonyLiberatto 364]

The scraped hide we have need barrels witch need saw witch need metal.

The scraped hide I am referring to is made just using a knife.

A process used by cavemen when first started using hides.

They will not last long but will warm you up. also can be used for leather strips.

The second process used on hides was to stretch it using the brains of the animal. that gave elasticity to the hide.

The third was to smoke the hide witch made it water resistant. 

all that was done before the use of metal.

Actually tanning was also done before the invention of metal. But that's another discussion and I don't want to go there.

[AllenWL 186]

Yes, I know you mean a different scrape hide, but the point I'm trying to say(and failing horribly at saying)

is that there is a scraped hide item in-game.

 

I mean, I don't think it'll be a good idea to have two different items with the same name but different uses and different ways to obtain them.

It could get confusing

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I see what you mean.

The truth is that when people first started using leather they would just scrape it.

Until someone found that soaking in a lime solution would make it easier to scrape and help in preserving killing all bacteria.

Maybe giving different names like calling the just scraped = scraped Hide.

and the one that was soaked and scraped = scraped Leather.

Just an idea someone my have a better.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Included world map picture to show that the biggest forest are by the equator.

[Cricas 0]

If we have clothing, can we have dresses?

After all clothing is not just for keeping you warm.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I have no idea how the devs are going about the body temperature implementation. But I don't think we are nearly close to fashion. Given the limitations of game memory and creating new items that need to be loaded increases Lag.

I Think is going to be a long time before we can create and wear different clothes in game. The best we can hope for now is for a few general clothes.

Maybe we going to be required to wear armor to protect from the cold. Or we could wear a Hide as a cape for the first days.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I'm going to post the current concept for body temperature here. (not in any small part so that i can look at it again when I'm not at work >.>)

 

Body temperature will take a number of aspects into account. Specifically, temperature-related clothing modifiers, clothing moisture, "environment" heat capacity, environmental temperature, player activity.

 

To explain what these mean, Clothes will have two types of modifiers a heat-control modifier and a cold-control modifier. These modify how well the player is able to stabilize their body temperature. Wool will have a moderate cold-control modifier which means you can wear it in the cold to avoid getting too cold, however excessive cold will still be a problem. For this, you would need to use fur clothing (the current model is that you're merely wrapping yourself in furs). Fur clothing therefore does not need to be crafted. Fur clothing has a high cold-control modifier but a negative heat-control modifier. If you wear it when it's not cold, you risk getting too hot. No other cloth types are currently confirmed, but it's likely that straw clothes will be added. Straw clothes are very basic and only provide a small heat-control modifier, however the straw hat protects players from the sun. More on this later.

 

Clothing moisture: if clothing items enter the water or the player is wearing them and the player enters the water, the clothing will become wet. When clothes are wet and the environment isn't incredibly wet (essentially, it's not ridiculously humid and/or the player isn't in the water), the player will cool down much faster. The rate is somewhat relative to the difference in temperature between the environment and the player and the difference in moisture between the player and the clothing. If it's cold and you're soaking wet, you're going to have a bad time. However, in the heat it may be nice.

 

- Player Moisture: player moisture is also affected by jumping in the water, however it's easier to manage. If the player is wet, they can put on dry clothes to dry themselves off.

 

Environment Heat Capacity: this is pretty minor, and is just the difference between air and water. 20 C water is much different than 20 C air.

 

Environment Temperature: this is pretty straight forward. There's a range of temperatures within which players can regulate their body temperature reasonably well. Clothing modifiers can expand this range. If the air temperature is outside of your manageable range, you begin to either heat up or cool down.

 

When it's warm, being in the sun is makes the player warm up faster. Wearing a straw hat or underneath another block can block this effect.

 

Standing near a lit firepit, forge or other source of heat will begin to return the player's temperature to it's normal state.

 

Hot springs will warm the player up nicely, but will also wet them. Best practice would be remove clothing before jumping in and putting it back on when getting out.

 

Not currently clear how to dry clothes off.

 

To take it all together, clothing makes it easier for the player to adjust to different temperatures. Moisture affects how the player heats or cools.

 

This is mostly just conceptual and not well designed.

[Dano6655 7]

I'm assuming lava would also affect the player as they get near it. Especially since the apparent temperature already skyrockets as you get closer to it

[Palisight 34]

As for wet clothes drying. Ideas:

 

If worn, you could tie the hot temperature cool down with wet clothes drying mechanic. Once the clothes are dry, the cool down will stop

 

Perhaps use similar coding to heating up meat and ores to store the moisture value of the clothes. At sufficiently high temperatures and appropriate air humidity values, the moisture levels of the clothes could decrease (whether they are on a Minecraftian or on the floor/clothes line/drying rock or whatever)

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I was not expecting that much to come on this update. Thank you for all that work so hard to bring this mod to us.

One thing gets me concerned: when we talk about different clothes and the need to have a spare of dry clothes in case you get wet. How much inventory those clothes are going to use up?

We already have a limited inventory especially when exploring and having to pick up all seeds and fruit tree saplings and bushes.

I think It would be nice to have a secondary inventory just for clothes. Nothing big, no one needs to go around with their whole closet, but big enough to have cold and hot clothes and spare in case they get wet.

Maybe something that we would call by pressing a key, like C for clothes.

I don't see any mention to rain, should I just assume we get wet when rains?

When playing on a server I always have the impression that when it rains it does on the whole world at the same time. (someone corrects me if wrong please.)

To have different humidity levels are we going to have rain by biome? So it would not rain that much on the deserts?

I live in florida and I know that humidity is not just about rain. Believe me with all the lakes here it feels like we are breathing water.