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snaketokill

Ore prosessing

6 posts in this topic

Our ore system is currently a lot simpler than it is really. Here is a few ideas to make it more accurate 

 

Crushing;

ores should be first crushed to remove rock from the ore and leave fine metal powder. This should be done with a hammer and later a possible crusher (mechanical or magical).  You will then be left with raw ore dust.

 

melting methods;

the current (tfc 1) start game method makes sense and I like it (hopefully so do you). However steel is sometimes much easier to make, however the steel made in these ways are used differently.

Example: katanas are made of a multi part billet made from iron dust poured into a clay tube full of burning coal or charcoal. The tube is then tapped at the bottom to allow the metal to flow out. This creates a clump of slag and metal at the base, similar to a bloom however containing steel. The steel is grade separated then arranged into the katana ingot which is worked into a sword.

this is one of many ways to make steel however it creates a different form. These different types of steel are interesting and could have their uses in tfc 2 (like a katana). So we could have many metal tech trees if you will. Like Damascus (in the Middle East), oriental (east Asian), industrial (European) and magic stuff (bone steel?)

point is their are many ways to create metal from dust but we can only have a few: Damascus (mixed metal steels) mostly alloys made the current way however, including a casted "steel" made of bronze and iron and charcoal dust, this type can be the easiest to make and the cheapest however is not as strong as the other methods. Oriental (most expensive) lots of work, little output however, the strongest product with out spells. European (blast furnace (current steel)) most efficient way to make steel however has lots of setup and is meant for mass production of an okay product. Magic (magical?) its magic so its different and should envolve death and sacrifice and such.

 

rolling and sheets:

rolling machines can be used instead of forging to create sheets late game by using mechanical power or some magic motor.

basically you run a double ingot into the machine cold a few times (make it a worked item with a progress bar, 10% each time)

this just makes things faster

 

thanks for reading, now discusse please :)

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On the subject of metal processing one of the chief complaints in TFC1 was not having the ability to pour multiple ingots at once. I do agree a channel system similar to tinker's construct, would be beneficial to pour multiple molds at once. Here's a picture of such a system they use in real life. Each channel/ingot cast fills up and then pours over into the next one.

tIYYLCQ.jpg

 

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Might also be an opportunity to introduce some simple sand casting.  Pig iron was normally done in sand beds.  But that was industrial scale, of course.

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On 3/12/2016 at 3:57 AM, snaketokill said:

Our ore system is currently a lot simpler than it is really. Here is a few ideas to make it more accurate 

 

Crushing;

ores should be first crushed to remove rock from the ore and leave fine metal powder. This should be done with a hammer and later a possible crusher (mechanical or magical).  You will then be left with raw ore dust.

 

melting methods;

the current (tfc 1) start game method makes sense and I like it (hopefully so do you). However steel is sometimes much easier to make, however the steel made in these ways are used differently.

Example: katanas are made of a multi part billet made from iron dust poured into a clay tube full of burning coal or charcoal. The tube is then tapped at the bottom to allow the metal to flow out. This creates a clump of slag and metal at the base, similar to a bloom however containing steel. The steel is grade separated then arranged into the katana ingot which is worked into a sword.

this is one of many ways to make steel however it creates a different form. These different types of steel are interesting and could have their uses in tfc 2 (like a katana). So we could have many metal tech trees if you will. Like Damascus (in the Middle East), oriental (east Asian), industrial (European) and magic stuff (bone steel?)

point is their are many ways to create metal from dust but we can only have a few: Damascus (mixed metal steels) mostly alloys made the current way however, including a casted "steel" made of bronze and iron and charcoal dust, this type can be the easiest to make and the cheapest however is not as strong as the other methods. Oriental (most expensive) lots of work, little output however, the strongest product with out spells. European (blast furnace (current steel)) most efficient way to make steel however has lots of setup and is meant for mass production of an okay product. Magic (magical?) its magic so its different and should envolve death and sacrifice and such.

 

rolling and sheets:

rolling machines can be used instead of forging to create sheets late game by using mechanical power or some magic motor.

basically you run a double ingot into the machine cold a few times (make it a worked item with a progress bar, 10% each time)

this just makes things faster

 

thanks for reading, now discusse please :)

Hmmmmmmmm......... I think that different ways of making steel steel are an excellent way to offer the player , and I like that you looked up many different methods of making steel, really good to see detailed suggestions :) (even if this is an oldie).

BUT there's one thing that really triggered me in this post

On 3/12/2016 at 3:57 AM, snaketokill said:

point is their are many ways to create metal from dust but we can only have a few: Damascus (mixed metal steels) mostly alloys made the current way however, including a casted "steel" made of bronze and iron and charcoal dust, this type can be the easiest to make and the cheapest however is not as strong as the other methods. Oriental (most expensive) lots of work, little output however, the strongest product with out spells. European (blast furnace (current steel)) most efficient way to make steel however has lots of setup and is meant for mass production of an okay product. Magic (magical?) its magic so its different and should envolve death and sacrifice and such.

 

No..... just no. The reason for which Japanese smiths folded the metal over and over while beating it is because the iron present in Japan was lower in quality than the one in europe. The smiths hammered the metal to remove impurities, just like its done to turn pig-iron into steel. Japanese "folded" steel is NOT, in fact, unbelievably tough. It's in fact a technique called pattern welding. The Japanese smiths mastered this in 1200 BC, while in Europe pattern welding was mastered in 800 AC by the Celts, 2000 years earlier. By the time the Japanese mastered this technique, in Europe other, more effective smithing techniques had caught on. This doesen't mean that folded steel is bad, but it is NOT, by far, the best steel that one can find. That said, nice suggestion :).

10 minutes ago, Darmo said:

Might also be an opportunity to introduce some simple sand casting.  Pig iron was normally done in sand beds.  But that was industrial scale, of course.

As long as you don't cast steel, then you're right. Casting was used estensively for bronze, copper and other soft materials (you probably know this already). Cast iron was used historically for other things: cast iron has high compressive strength (a cast iron pillar would hold up really heavy loads) but ridiculously low resistance to impact (I can't remember if it was called tensile strength or something else), meaning that a cast iron tool or weapon would shatter at the first heavy blow.

19 hours ago, Stroam said:

On the subject of metal processing one of the chief complaints in TFC1 was not having the ability to pour multiple ingots at once. I do agree a channel system similar to tinker's construct, would be beneficial to pour multiple molds at once. Here's a picture of such a system they use in real life. Each channel/ingot cast fills up and then pours over into the next one.

It would be awesome: casting one ingot at a time was a pain in the side, but using a system similar to tconstruct would make things wonderfully easier.

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The folding of the steel in jap steel was done to even out the impurities not remove them, concentrations off impurities makes for weaker blades as the weaker high impurity region will break first / nucleate cracks. No smith hammered a piece to remove impurities that is ludicrous how does whacking a rapidly oxidising (an impurity) hunk of metal remove impurities? They hammered to shape and to harden (work hardening), and as previously stated they welded the pieces to even out the impurities.

On a side note a system to cast multiple ingots at once would be great, it could be balanced by the runners retaining some metal which then requires re-melting or simply is a loss.

On cast iron, as noted it has great compressive strength, it also has quite good tensile strength (not that great but decent), however it's toughness is abysmal due to graphite plates forming in the metal. A cast iron mace would be reasonable but yeah generally it would make for pretty poor tools.

On cast copper, did they really use copper rather than an alloy because copper has a melting point about the same as iron (higher if my memory serves) of about 1400C which is far higher than something expected from a pre-Bronze age fire, on the other hand if tin was used to dissolve some copper from a copper bearing stone I could understand how temperatures of 800C - 1000C could cast "copper".

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I've been told that my reasoning was off with folded steel and discovered this is in fact correct. Folded steel of contained impurities and brown spots (rust pockets) however jewel steel which is very recent compaired to every other steel process we listed is considered a much stronger blade steel and tool steel than most other forms. It takes a lot of work to make and is only made in a handful of mills in Japan modernly for a large price. If we used this method than steel could be made with much less machinery but lots of work. I think all the steels should be pretty even stat wise but have their upsides.

 

Machines needed cound be the largest upside to oriental steel as in just needs a clay bloom smelter and an anvil.

 

European steel/ celtic should need very little work compaire to other steels and work similar to tfc1 but be able to be made quickly in mass

 

Damascus/ middle-eastern should be cheap on materials and need a little more work than euro but less than oriental. 

 

This would give players advantages based on which area they live in for each steel similar to history 

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