Transportation Infrastructure

[Hyena Grin 92]

I would like to see more vehicles that allow a second player avatar to ride along. I mentioned this briefly in a reply about horse-drawn wagons, but a second, more advanced boat (perphaps with a sail?) could have its own storage and also allow a second player to sit in the back. The other player wouldn't be able to control anything (other than to get back out of the vehicle) but it would make traveling in pairs much more tolerable. This new boat could also be impervious to collision destruction (seriously, screw that mechanic. I'd like to see smaller boats also made invulnerable. I am so tired of lag spikes slamming me into ground and destroying my boat through no fault of my own. Happens ALL THE TIME)

[Sting_Auer 59]

Personally, I'd like boats to handle more realistically instead of being a water-only hovercraft.

 

"So, there's the problem with your product - it lets me do this without any warning, but then immediately breaks apart."

"Well, what can I say, good sir... just don't do this, we aint gonna fix shit."

-------------------------

 

That analogy does not apply in any way. You're comparing something not working as intended to something completely intentional; mobs are supposed to be dangerous and avoided until you have the capacity to combat them.

[starshard0 8]

I'd like to see boats that are able to be picked up (canoes?) that can be made by hollowing out a log or something serving as the first type of boat. Also, it would be nice if instead of disintegrating on impact, they either break and give you the boat back (planks and sticks, who thought of that?), or having some form of durability damage that will eventually cause the whole thing to break, depending on impact speed (if that's possible to program).

[Ranadiel 5]

I was thinking more on the lines of two modes for dirt, gravel, cobblestone and some other materials:

1. Flattening - Makes the block flat, unable to grow grass or anything else on it (just like using a hoe), but it gives the first step in speeding up (10% dirt, 20% gravel, 30% cobblestone, etc.). Player is able to put items on it (barrels, chests, decorations, fences, etc.).

2. Road - Another reworking of the block changes it into a road block. The block can look a bit smaller or bigger(just like mentioned). No grass or plants grow on it and no items can be put on it also unless the block is reworked back to Flattening. It gives the bigger speed bonus (20% dirt, 40% gravel, 60% cobble, etc.).

 

Concerning the spiders. When i usually go out to mine or gather resources, most of the places i travel are further from my base. If you only go out in the morning and by the evening you can't do much during the remaining time. Running away through the land with mobs chasing you back to your base or just hiding somewhere is my most common tactic. Even without it all, exploring far away lands is tough when a single spider can outrun you and kill.

[Tathar 26]

I have to disagree in the strongest terms with what Euphoric is saying.  These features would be a huge improvement for communal and public SMP play.  Instead of roads and carts being used by a single person, you would see several people using the same infrastructure.  Let's lay this out:

 

Communal SMP

• Everyone is working together in the same town.  Therefore, everyone has the same logistical concerns.
  • The most commonly-traveled paths could be made into roads.
  • Handcarts would help people bring resources from one area of the town to another.
• Resources are community-owned and applied where needed.  Resources could be stockpiled either next to their respective gathering point or in a centralized location.
  • Depending on which stockpiling option is used, roads could be designed as a web or as a hub-and-spoke design.
  • Handcarts make a centralized stockpile more attractive for smaller towns, but larger towns could efficiently use either option.
• A town requires more resources than a single person.  Therefore, resource gathering points, such as farms and lumber yards, are generally in geographically distinct locations.
  • Some resource gathering points are stationary and permanent.  However, many are far away from the town, including deserts, forests, and wild fruit trees.  Roads would greatly improve travel to these isolated locations.
  • Other resource gathering points are non-permanent.  Ore deposits make up the majority of this category.  Minecarts and tracks would make more sense than roads in this case since they could be moved as necessary.  However, TFC currently lacks a feasible way to implement a minecart system, since you need iron to start one, and the materials are costly.  Alternatives such as wooden minecarts and tracks would make this a possibility prior to the Iron Age and feasible after.

Public SMP

• Many players will choose to settle somewhere on their own and trade with other players doing the same.
  • Trading partners would find a connecting road, even if incomplete, to be a huge boon to all parties.
  • Given that the distance between trading partners will often be too far to make multiple trips appropriate, handcarts would help a lot.  However, the increased storage space would have to outweigh the reduced speed for this to make sense, so cutting speed in half may be overkill.
  • A single road connecting several trading partners together would see more use than several roads connecting each pair of trading partners directly.
• Other players will form towns and play cooperatively.
  • For these players, the same points for communal SMP apply here.

[Euphoric 48]

Tathar, what you are describing is simple role-play. All arguments for building infrastructure is based in role-play.

From gameplay perspective, eg. minimizing time and effort to get something and maximizing the gain, any kind of infrastructure must take less effort to build than it saves when built. And I can't simply see anything like that in TFC at the moment. "Trading" in TFC happens maybe twice per person's gameplay. Why would person trade something, when they can get everything themselves? Only thing that is relatively tradeable are metals/usable minerals, in which case, you don't really have anything to trade back. As for mining, again. You will mine out most ores in no more than few hours. And thats for huge deposits. So if building infrastructure takes one hour, then I don't see reason to build it.

 

Of course, I'm  not stopping Bioxx or Dunk from implementing features that make role-playing more fun. But I would prefer if they implemented more gameplay-related changes. These kind of changes would only be reasonable as part of gameplay, if there were any problems, that building infrastructure would solve. Limited carrying capacity and need to move between different places often being ones. And the reasons why you think this is good are nothing more than you, role-playing in your head.

[Tathar 26]

Actually, I was describing gameplay reasons for using the suggested features.  I left out the resource costs of building the roads because there are several types of roads mentioned here, and I'm not sure what the cost vs. benefit of each comes out to.  I suspect that the movement speeds overall would need to be greater than the OP mentioned, though.  

 

Also, trading happens more often than you'd expect on a public server.  With how far apart certain resources can be, it's important to find trading partners in different biomes and climates.  Sure, everyone can get everything themselves, but the time cost of doing so may be more than the cost of trading with someone who already has something you need.  Let's say you specifically need basalt bricks and aspen saplings for a black building, and you don't have those resources nearby.  Are you going to travel a thousand blocks or more (per trip!) to gather those resources, or are you going to trade with someone who already has them in great quantity?  Trading involves travel too, but at least you can optimize your inventory for hauling trade goods instead of having to bring various tools and supplies with you.  

 

Of course top-layer mining, as is, would make minecarts less necessary.  You would need significant changes to the inventory sizes of stone, dirt, and ore resources for that to be important.  However, deep mining tends to involve more underground mineshafts.  A minecart system would make more sense in that case, assuming that the resource cost didn't outweigh the benefits.  Right now it does, so we would need a cheaper alternative that we can have access to earlier.  It's a bit trickier to balance than roads are though, so I'm admittedly having a hard time coming up with a suitable solution.  

[Kittychanley 1,002]

I'd like to see boats that are able to be picked up (canoes?) that can be made by hollowing out a log or something serving as the first type of boat. Also, it would be nice if instead of disintegrating on impact, they either break and give you the boat back (planks and sticks, who thought of that?), or having some form of durability damage that will eventually cause the whole thing to break, depending on impact speed (if that's possible to program).

 

 

That vanilla mechanic was changed in 1.3.1 so that player broken boats do drop boats and not sticks & planks. The only time you still get those is if you crash.

[starshard0 8]

"That vanilla mechanic was changed in 1.3.1 so that player broken boats do drop boats and not sticks & planks. The only time you still get those is if you crash."

 

 

I had no idea! I guess I'm just used to crashing my boats (accidentally of course) and never tried to pick them up. I might be running into a bit of a bug though, because I hit one of my boats last night trying to break it, and it just disappeared, not dropping planks or sticks.

[Sting_Auer 59]

I had no idea! I guess I'm just used to crashing my boats (accidentally of course) and never tried to pick them up. I might be running into a bit of a bug though, because I hit one of my boats last night trying to break it, and it just disappeared, not dropping planks or sticks.

==================

 

The boat wasn't actually there, it was in a different location according to the server/internal server. I've had the bug happen to me too, it usually happens when you're boating near low-hanging leaves or lots of blocks.

[jacob4408 8]

I normally play with a group of friends and friends-of-friends in a PvE world.  Even without carts, transportation benefits, movement buffs etc., just being able to create a path somewhat resistant to grass growth would be great.  Roads, trails and paths would add tremendous amounts of character and role play to the world.  When new players come in, it would be more convenient and immersive to say "Take the path south out of town and follow it until you hit the wheat farm." instead of "Go to coordinateds X,Z"

 

It could also be used to identify abandoned properties in MP servers.  If the path to a house (hovel, cave) is growing over, I know the person has been away for a while and may have abandoned it. If the path is well maintained I know that player is active.

[Maga 99]

In order to make roads to mines none-redundant you would have to nerf inventory capacity so drastically as to render day-to-day gameplay a nightmare.

The alternative is to change world-gen to have far fewer, but much larger veins of ores in a manner similar to real life where a single mine can last a decade+ of heavy mining.  This could then be combined with non-game-ruining inventory nerfs to create an environment where transportation infrastructure has a desirable cost to benefit ratio.

 

In order to make the early game possible despite the more spread out larger veins, smaller surface veins (embedded in boulders...cliff faces...not too hard to find etc) of roughly 1000 units each would be made much more common, enough to make your next tool perhaps but far less than the current 3 sets of armor and full size blast furnace you can make from every single vein of iron you currently find in the world.

 

The problem I see is every vein has enough to supply your needs for roughly the same amount of time... variation is desperately needed to make transportation infrastructure beneficial.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

I normally play with a group of friends and friends-of-friends in a PvE world.  Even without carts, transportation benefits, movement buffs etc., just being able to create a path somewhat resistant to grass growth would be great.  Roads, trails and paths would add tremendous amounts of character and role play to the world.  When new players come in, it would be more convenient and immersive to say "Take the path south out of town and follow it until you hit the wheat farm." instead of "Go to coordinateds X,Z"

 

It could also be used to identify abandoned properties in MP servers.  If the path to a house (hovel, cave) is growing over, I know the person has been away for a while and may have abandoned it. If the path is well maintained I know that player is active.

 

Animal Crossing had a system like this in place once, where the player walking around would slowly convert the grass to dirt. Unfortunately simply due to the nature of players not always following the exact same path every time, it quickly resulted into the entire map being covered in ugly brown random squiggles.

 

If you want some sort of visual indicator of a path, just dig one out and replace the blocks with bricks or gravel or sand or something. Even with obvious paths that were player placed, I can guarantee that if you watch it long enough, you will see players cutting corners and walking off the path frequently. It's just common nature to take the shortest route from point A to point B, which is a straight line.. instead of following a zig zagging path.

[Maga 99]

 

It's just common nature to take the shortest route from point A to point B, which is a straight line.. instead of following a zig zagging path.

Obviously this is true... players take the fastest route. The next part is assuming that roads provide no speed buff. 

If a road was planned properly and provided a speed buff when used then they would absolutely be better than going in a straight line over hills where you constantly have to jump / avoid leaves

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Obviously this is true... players take the fastest route. The next part is assuming that roads provide no speed buff.

 

This has already been discussed to death, necro'd, discussed back down into the archives, and then resurrected in new threads.

D&B have specifically stated that they will not buff speed on roads, and will in fact - if the whim strikes them - simulate the effect by making you move at a permanently debuffed speed unless you're on a road.

[Maga 99]

This has already been discussed to death, necro'd, discussed back down into the archives, and then resurrected in new threads.

D&B have specifically stated that they will not buff speed on roads, and will in fact - if the whim strikes them - simulate the effect by making you move at a permanently debuffed speed unless you're on a road.

If you look at he number under my name you might notice it's not 1,595+

Still new around here and very much ignorant of what has and has not been discussed over the past months.

Thanks for letting me know it's a closed subject.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

If you look at he number under my name you might notice it's not 1,595+

Still new around here and very much ignorant of what has and has not been discussed over the past months.

Thanks for letting me know it's a closed subject.

 

1) If I'm to be blunt (and I usually am), that's what the search function is for.2) As you still have that new-user smell - which is kinda like new car smell mixed with cheetos - I don't really expect you to know that right out the gate. But you now know for the future, so no excuses - research is key.

[jacob4408 8]

Animal Crossing had a system like this in place once, where the player walking around would slowly convert the grass to dirt. Unfortunately simply due to the nature of players not always following the exact same path every time, it quickly resulted into the entire map being covered in ugly brown random squiggles.

 

If you want some sort of visual indicator of a path, just dig one out and replace the blocks with bricks or gravel or sand or something. Even with obvious paths that were player placed, I can guarantee that if you watch it long enough, you will see players cutting corners and walking off the path frequently. It's just common nature to take the shortest route from point A to point B, which is a straight line.. instead of following a zig zagging path.

 

My intent was not for paths to be automatically created where players walk but specifically created by players for aesthetic and directional purposes.  Sure, people may not always follow the roads but, in our group at least, people mostly do follow them.  They follow them for role play, for an ease of finding their way from point A to point B and because they were such a pain to build that we want to use them. Often roads are built in such a way to highlight to geographic features or scenic areas that are not likely to be noticed by straight line travel.

 

The only problem with gravel or sand is that resources are so much more difficult in TFC. (That's a good thing, btw)  If a player could use something like a hoe to turn grass blocks into plain dirt "path" blocks that resisted grass growth then it would be a nice mechanism.  Since hoes already turn dirt to farmland, it would probably be easy code as well.

 

No speed buffs, no special properties, just an aesthetically pleasant way to give relationship to different buildings and places, to join various locations into a network instead of isolated structures.

[AllenWL 186]

Just use farmland for now.

I like using farmland because you can simulate a 'overgrown' road with crops.

Although, right now, I have no crops to waste on aesthetics.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I really like to build roads. There can be no civilizations without roads.

Please no slowing down the player off roads.

Yes to speed up over different kinds of roads.

Make Hand carts and wood wagons break the wheel after some use.

This way the cart remains, but it cannot be moved until the wheel is replaced.

It addresses several coding mechanics that would be easier than track durability.

That said there will not be any road network on servers for as long as there is TP or warping.

Also the whole road and vehicle thing needs to be implemented at the same time as the inventory tweak.

Off course we should implement roads and carts before hand and only change inventory after brushing all the bugs from the roads and carts system.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I really like to build roads. There can be no civilizations without roads.

Please no slowing down the player off roads.

Yes to speed up over different kinds of roads.

Make Hand carts and wood wagons break the wheel after some use.

This way the cart remains, but it cannot be moved until the wheel is replaced.

It addresses several coding mechanics that would be easier than track durability.

That said there will not be any road network on servers for as long as there is TP or warping.

Also the whole road and vehicle thing needs to be implemented at the same time as the inventory tweak.

Off course we should implement roads and carts before hand and only change inventory after brushing all the bugs from the roads and carts system.

 

 

you didn't read a single word of this thread other than the OP, did you

[TonyLiberatto 364]

you didn't read a single word of this thread other than the OP, did you

To be honest I read the entire post.

I intended to show my support for the general idea.

I would love to have a transport system that really work with the actual game-play on single-player an servers.

Right now I cannot see roads on servers for as long as Teleporting is available.

Dont get me wrong I always make some short roads around my settlement to quickly reach forests and other resources.

But is just a aesthetically thing. So I would Like to have more reasons and  benefits from it.

 So if this was a pool I voted Yes.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

To be honest I read the entire post.

I intended to show my support for the general idea.

I would love to have a transport system that really work with the actual game-play on single-player an servers.

Right now I cannot see roads on servers for as long as Teleporting is available.

Dont get me wrong I always make some short roads around my settlement to quickly reach forests and other resources.

But is just a aesthetically thing. So I would Like to have more reasons and  benefits from it.

 So if this was a pool I voted Yes.

 

You won't see this. Ever. Roads will always and only be 100% aesthetic. You will never receive any bonuses from them, and that is straight from the developer's mouths.

[Maga 99]

To be honest I read the entire post.

For goodness sake, you've been posting old-hat all over the place for the past 9 hours non-stop. Not cool.

 

Straight talk, no-nonsense time. The faster you get this the better off you'll be:

Try doing more reading and thinking before you do your talking or you risk sounding foolish.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

You won't see this. Ever. Roads will always and only be 100% aesthetic. You will never receive any bonuses from them, and that is straight from the developer's mouths.

That isn't wrong, but we can go back on our word too

 

There was discussion a while back about horses and carts. Wheels certainly do better on flat surfaces, and not so well on 1 metre cliffs. If they get added to the game, roads may have a purpose, if not as an explicit structure, but that running carts over stone or cobblestone might be faster than dragging them over grass, dirt or sand.