Go to hell

[Alestance 39]

If the nether is intended to be used, I would want the nether to get a similar overhaul as the Overworld itself had gotten. This is actually a perfect opportunity to tear out my old Nether Suggestion post from the MC Forums.

It's been suggested that more magical and mythological ores would be included in the Nether such as Mithril, Adamant, Orichalcum,

I'd like to suggest some Nether based things myself, mostly regarding the types of stones and soils found in the Nether and what each type can be used for. I took inspiration from the Seven Deadly Sins when composing this list. The Nether IS considered Hell.

Luxurite(Lust) A very soft and beautiful magenta marble-like stone. Has the ability to attract enemy mobs to it. Has the same blast resistance as most types of overworld soils.

Gulaclay(Gluttony) a yellow green type of soil that has a chance every tick to destroy[eat] overworld blocks below it and is suceptable to gravity. Grass cannot grow on it. Can be used to create gula clay pots which destroy/consume any item put in it.

Avaritite(Greed) a purple soft stone that generally has a significantly high chance of dropping nether gems. If you create smooth Avaritite blocks, and put eight of them in a crafting table in a similar manner as making a chest with a chisel in the center, you can create Avaritite Coffers which act as Vanilla double chests.

Acedisoil(Sloth), Soulsand.

Iratite(Wrath), Netherrack. Can be used as a fuel in the Forge and Bloomery that burns hotter and longer than charcoal, but not infinitely.

Invidiatium(Envy), A type of green ore with a low melting point. When placed in a metallurgy table with another substance, Invidiatium takes the form of that metal.

Superbiatite(Pride), A type of teal stone that "dislikes" being on the overworld. When placed in the Overworld, it acts like primed TNT and explodes after a few seconds. It's about as strong as regular TNT.

I know some of those materials sound forced, and I am aware of it, but those were the ideas I came up with at the time.

[bsb23 303]

Ya I remember that post but with seven layers we are going to need more seven blocks (plus glowstone, brick, lava and spawner I suppose) Although these would work decently as the layers soil types

[Sasqaucth 45]

If the nether is intended to be used, I would want the nether to get a similar overhaul as the Overworld itself had gotten. This is actually a perfect opportunity to tear out my old Nether Suggestion post from the MC Forums.

I know some of those materials sound forced, and I am aware of it, but those were the ideas I came up with at the time.

Plus one

[MDub 68]

Im not entirely sold on the idea of 'time in nether = magic'. What if mobs or something (maybe new mobs like the crazy demon things that fell from the sky in Warcraft 3) could provide some drops which could be combined with gems (at the proposed enchanted state) to sort of charge them. I see people making safe houses in the nether and and just afk'ing while waiting for their gems to power up, where as with a mob drop, or some other type of earned reward, they would have to participate in that last step beyond 'place jar, wait'. Not entirely sure about the mecahnics behind it, but perhaps their drop rate is related to armor rating, or something so that players would need to progress far enough through the teirs to even make use of the enchanted gems, and even then, have to fight op mobs for drops to charge them.

[bsb23 303]

Actually sort of agree with this guy for once except instead of a drop we just use experience like it was originally intended. Read my post on enchanting I explain somewhere in there that the tool the gem enchants can only hold so much energy and the higher tier metals will hold better more powerful enchants while say copper tools can't.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Im not entirely sold on the idea of 'time in nether = magic'. What if mobs or something (maybe new mobs like the crazy demon things that fell from the sky in Warcraft 3) could provide some drops which could be combined with gems (at the proposed enchanted state) to sort of charge them. I see people making safe houses in the nether and and just afk'ing while waiting for their gems to power up, where as with a mob drop, or some other type of earned reward, they would have to participate in that last step beyond 'place jar, wait'. Not entirely sure about the mecahnics behind it, but perhaps their drop rate is related to armor rating, or something so that players would need to progress far enough through the teirs to even make use of the enchanted gems, and even then, have to fight op mobs for drops to charge them.

1) build nether mob grinder.

2) afk like you're waiting for a jar of nether juice to get magical or whatever

No matter what you do, people will figure out ways of getting it done easier and on bigger scales. Look at Ethoslab on youtube, this guy works without mods. With only redstone and pistons, this guy has taken what are supposed to be the most fierce enemies in the game, representing demons, and he automated a system to collect and slaughter them for infinite xp and blaze rods. His blaze farm design is the most popular one in minecraft at the moment.

[Jasnatdic 85]

Likewise I would like to see an overhaul to nether. Maybe totally scrap the giant cave theme and go red sky and red fog. Then biomes, like volcano, lava ocean, hell mountains and so on. Nether fort could then be more of a castle and less of a weird random laberynth of bridges over lava.

But, as for the way in, deffinatly as described in the OP.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Incidentally, guys, I'm not sure I like all the 'you need this from hell' or 'you have to go to the nether to do this' talk.

In the OP, I described a system where you can go for YEARS ingame potentially before finding a portal, if you even do at all. The chances of finding a portal are small at best.

Now if you want to make the nether a requirement to use certain game mechanics that's fine, but then we have to stick with the vanilla idea of making them craftable.

But using what I mentioned in the OP requires a total re-tooling of what the nether means to people. Fixed rare portals mean that the contents of the nether should be ENTIRELY unnecessary for advancement, difficult to obtain once found, but really really cool - like the adamant and mithril ore mentioned before.

But for the gods sakes, do NOT make enchantment dependent on nether travel if portals are fixed. That's like Jeb telling vanilla players that potion stands require an ender dragon egg, and then removing the ability of ender eyes to find strongholds. It becomes an exercise in patience and sheer luck. This is not balanced gameplay.

Also w00t, 400 posts

[Jed1314 420]

Incidentally, guys, I'm not sure I like all the 'you need this from hell' or 'you have to go to the nether to do this' talk.

In the OP, I described a system where you can go for YEARS ingame potentially before finding a portal, if you even do at all. The chances of finding a portal are small at best.

Now if you want to make the nether a requirement to use certain game mechanics that's fine, but then we have to stick with the vanilla idea of making them craftable.

But using what I mentioned in the OP requires a total re-tooling of what the nether means to people. Fixed rare portals mean that the contents of the nether should be ENTIRELY unnecessary for advancement, difficult to obtain once found, but really really cool - like the adamant and mithril ore mentioned before.

But for the gods sakes, do NOT make enchantment dependent on nether travel if portals are fixed. That's like Jeb telling vanilla players that potion stands require an ender dragon egg, and then removing the ability of ender eyes to find strongholds. It becomes an exercise in patience and sheer luck. This is not balanced gameplay.

Also w00t, 400 posts

Congrats on the 400 posts.

I've never really liked the nether much (mostly because I found it to be an ugly and boring place), so I really wouldn't appreciate being forced to go there for enchanting or anything else. That said, if Bioxx does a good job of redesigning it (as I'm sure he will) maybe it won't be so abysmal. For the love of god though, he really does need to get rid of the roof. It just makes me feel like I'm in some kind of hellish, flaming uterus *shudder*

[Lumireaver 101]

- snippy snippy -

Fixed rare portals mean that the contents of the nether should be ENTIRELY unnecessary for advancement, difficult to obtain once found, but really really cool - like the adamant and mithril ore mentioned before.

But for the gods sakes, do NOT make enchantment dependent on nether travel if portals are fixed.

- snippy snippy -

Aren't enchantments entirely unnecessary for advancement though? :U

I personally feel they should be little rewards that last a long time. The longer you manage to keep them, the more valuable they will have become. Even if the highest tiered efficiency enchantment only saved a fraction of a second for each mining operation, by keeping it with you, safe, for many in-game years you'll have saved hours of mine time.

I've been thinking about the Nether now and again. I definitely like the idea of layers, but with a 255 block limit there wouldn't be room for too many...If it were divided into three, we could make the first a large, red cavernous area dotted with magma lakes, and filled many dangerous demonic mobs. Perhaps these mobs would be so hostile they would occasionally fight non-like mobs. There would be primitive looking stone constructions decorated with carvings. Bare-bones buildings, without any apparent accommodations. Also nether fortresses. Any non-endgame player would most likely have to run for shelter, but would have a hard time escaping without confrontation. By finding an exposed cave, or forcing their way through the extraordinarily hard hell stone they would be able to reach the middle layer. This is where there would be all kinds of different things. Like mini-biomes. Dense mushroom forests complete with bioluminescent 'shrooms and living fungoid creatrures, little yellow sulphur caves with mercury waterfalls, and whatever crazy crap might make you widen your eyes in response to the beauty and craziness of it all. Under thaaat, you'd find a huge, apparently endless primordial sea with soul sand beaches, and maybe little islands formed by magma falls pouring from above. :U

[Jed1314 420]

-snip-

I like your vision of the nether !

It's not just hell anymore, it's also the underdark AND limbo

If there was a primordial sea then there would definitely be a place for some kind of horrifying sea beast !

Also, I had an idea. Why don't we make the nether portals "rifts" in the (blocky woolen) fabric of the minecraft universe. Instead of having to find/craft them, they would open up around you very very occasionally in a kind of special event. When that happened, mobs from the nether would pour (maybe just trickle) out of the portal. This would make inter-dimensional rifts something to be feared and respected, and would also add a small element of random danger to your day. Perhaps there would be a way to stablize or cause these rifts, (such as bringing back a specific type of item/ore/rock from the nether itself) meaning you can access the nether consistently rather than having to wait for a random event

Also, the rifts could open in appropriate places e.g. While in water the rift would take you to the primordial sea, while underground they would take you to the cavernous firey nether and while above ground they would take you to the fantastic sounding middle one ?

Obviously, this is based on your suggestion above, so you could still travel between the three of them physically as well.

[bsb23 303]

I agree with eternal here the Nether shouldn't be necessary it should just be a boost *cough* *cough* catalysts. The energy found here should still just be XP you could just find more here than in the overworld. Portals should still be built to prevent from noobs getting into the portal by luck and someone who plays a ton possibly never finding the portal.

[Jed1314 420]

Portals should still be built to prevent from noobs getting into the portal by luck and someone who plays a ton possibly never finding the portal.

The idea though is that a noob with poor equipment would be killed by the mobs if they tried to take on the portal

The nether should be prohibitively difficult to survive in for nooby players, so that it actually proves challenging for mid - late game players.

Perhaps there should be a method of triggering rifts that can be found in the overworld, so that unlucky advanced players could get to the nether.

[MDub 68]

1) build nether mob grinder.

2) afk like you're waiting for a jar of nether juice to get magical or whatever

No matter what you do, people will figure out ways of getting it done easier and on bigger scales. Look at Ethoslab on youtube, this guy works without mods. With only redstone and pistons, this guy has taken what are supposed to be the most fierce enemies in the game, representing demons, and he automated a system to collect and slaughter them for infinite xp and blaze rods. His blaze farm design is the most popular one in minecraft at the moment.

You're an asshat... why is it that the only responces you've had to my comments havent even been constructively critical, you've just been a douche to me since day one? For chirsts sake, get off my back, and stop being an asshole. Obviously people can build a mod trap, but the they have to work for it beyond building a 1x1x2 hole to hide in. You dont have anything constructive so say for critiquing my comments, why go out of your way to be a dick to me?

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

You're an asshat... why is it that the only responces you've had to my comments havent even been constructively critical, you've just been a douche to me since day one? For chirsts sake, get off my back, and stop being an asshole. Obviously people can build a mod trap, but the they have to work for it beyond building a 1x1x2 hole to hide in. You dont have anything constructive so say for critiquing my comments, why go out of your way to be a dick to me?

Here's the thing - I'm not.

You just have apparently a very sensitive disposition.

Incidentally, there's no need to namecall and make yourself come across as a prick. You must be a riot at parties, I'll bet.

Hang around Lumireaver, JDCollie, or Jed some more. They have actual good ideas, and don't act like I called their mom a whore when I point out flaws in said ideas. I am not insulting, I am thinking critically. I nitpick even good ideas on these forums until they come out polished to a mirror shine. If you can't handle that, then simply ignore me.

[MDub 68]

You didnt point out flaws in my idea... you compared the efforts of a player building an elaborate mob trap and remarkably complex redstone creations to a person digging a hole and afking next to a magic source. Since the very first post I've made you've gone out of your way to cut down my opinions. Even your other peers have pointed this out to you (need I remind you of my previous post in suggests, and the public apology you made for being a dick?). Regardless, youre a troll. At least to me anyway, and I dont have time for people who have nothing better to do than cut down honest opinions needlessless on forums. Im done paying any attention to you. Get a life, or perhaps a job.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

You didnt point out flaws in my idea... you compared the efforts of a player building an elaborate mob trap and remarkably complex redstone creations to a person digging a hole and afking next to a magic source. Since the very first post I've made you've gone out of your way to cut down my opinions. Even your other peers have pointed this out to you (need I remind you of my previous post in suggests, and the public apology you made for being a dick?). Regardless, youre a troll. At least to me anyway, and I dont have time for people who have nothing better to do than cut down honest opinions needlessless on forums. Im done paying any attention to you. Get a life, or perhaps a job.

I have a job, thank you. I'm pretty certain most people on this forum do. I actually leave for work today 2.5 hrs after this message is posted.

And did I go out of line once? Yes. And I apologized (though not for insulting macs).

And I am not comparing building a mob spawner to digging a hole, what I am saying is that AFTER the one-time expenditure of effort required to make a mob spawner, the rest of your mob collection for the remainder of the game will consist of pretty much just waiting in a hole, same as the first method. The idea is to provide constant challenge rather than a one-time rush followed by permanent languor and sailing through what is ostensibly supposed to be hell on a golden jet powered by thoughts and operated with the Staples 'easy' button.

[Lumireaver 101]

I see people making safe houses in the nether and and just afk'ing while waiting for their gems to power up. - snip -

That's because you for some reason avoided reading the long-post where I devised a mechanic that addresses that specific scenario.

Posting from mobile. :U Want to comment on other stuff...

Eternal just seemed to me as though he were trying to illustrate that he believes your mechanic is probably not immune to automation in some form. I didn't detect any animosity, at least.

Edit: o god in the time it takes to post on a mobile, a whole argument happened...

[MDub 68]

I assure you, it was because I said it, and it had nothing to do with the validity of the idea. Not sure what his problem is with me... It wont stop me from trying to help people on the forum and continuing to submit bugs as I find them, I just have a troll to avoid is all :/

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I assure you, it was because I said it, and it had nothing to do with the validity of the idea.

...yyyyyyeah...

You, uh, definitely know my own motivations way better than, say... Me.

Guess I misinterpreted my own thoughts - thanks for the heads up.

[MDub 68]

...yyyyyyeah...

You, uh, definitely know my own motivations way better than, say... Me.

Guess I misinterpreted my own thoughts - thanks for the heads up.

_{well when you're that transparent....}

[Lumireaver 101]

So I actually left this open, went to run some errands, and wound up posting it now-ish, when I got back. Be impressed by my obfuscation of proper verb tense!

I like your vision of the nether !

It's not just hell anymore, it's also the underdark AND limbo

If there was a primordial sea then there would definitely be a place for some kind of horrifying sea beast !

Also, I had an idea. Why don't we make the nether portals "rifts" in the (blocky woolen) fabric of the minecraft universe. Instead of having to find/craft them, they would open up around you very very occasionally in a kind of special event. When that happened, mobs from the nether would pour (maybe just trickle) out of the portal. This would make inter-dimensional rifts something to be feared and respected, and would also add a small element of random danger to your day. Perhaps there would be a way to stablize or cause these rifts, (such as bringing back a specific type of item/ore/rock from the nether itself) meaning you can access the nether consistently rather than having to wait for a random event

Also, the rifts could open in appropriate places e.g. While in water the rift would take you to the primordial sea, while underground they would take you to the cavernous firey nether and while above ground they would take you to the fantastic sounding middle one ?

Obviously, this is based on your suggestion above, so you could still travel between the three of them physically as well.

Gracias. Was imagining my ideal vacation spot. :U

...Hey, yeah, didn't Dunkle want an opportunity to work in a kraken?

Hrm...I'm not a fan of totally spontaneous hell-rift events. Give them some kind of behaviour though and then they've got a pleasantly sticky cohesive feeling. Like making them appear for entire nights, but only on full moons or whatever. Just an example. Then again, I feel like that'll lead to people wanting some kind of kooky rituals to open them manually, which I really don't like. I firmly believe all things arcane should be inherently impossible for mere mortals to fully comprehend without their brain melting into a drippy slurry. (Which isn't to say I'm against enchantments, I just feel they should just be a cautious, experimental supernatural interaction kind of deal, not an "i'm a wizard, watch me make magics' kind of deal.)

On the subject of portals and warp stones though, I actually came up with something while at the gym. (I think quickest at six miles an hour. :U)

First of all, I don't think portals to hell would be very balanced as a game mechanic considering how we're building hell as a place that's very difficult to get to... As a matter of fact, what if overworld portal spots activated and deactivated on a timed basis. (Think days, or weeks..? Lunar cycles again?) In this particular case, I'd be alright with players being able to open their own. ...Portals or fast travel stones as a way back home from hell would be much easier to swallow though. Probably best if they just threw you somewhere on the surface of the overworld so you're not necessarily out of danger.

...What if there were incomplete portal structures in fortresses. Mining these broken portal blocks, dusting them off and filling in the cracks somehow would allow a player to assemble their own completed portals. Doing so would open temporary portal on the other side that little things could also jump through. Replacing the temporary hole with portal blocks could make it a permanent portal. Even then, the permanent portal could be made to open and close randomly, or based on lunar cycles or whatever. (Maybe lunar cycles for portal blocks, random for natural portals?) The reason it'd have to be in the same spot as the temporary one would be because how portals are linked based on coordinates. Just brain storming.

I agree with eternal here the Nether shouldn't be necessary it should just be a boost *cough* *cough* catalysts. The energy found here should still just be XP you could just find more here than in the overworld. Portals should still be built to prevent from noobs getting into the portal by luck and someone who plays a ton possibly never finding the portal.

The word "XP" makes me want to post images of people making serious expressions in order to lazily express my dissent. :U

The idea though is that a noob with poor equipment would be killed by the mobs if they tried to take on the portal

The nether should be prohibitively difficult to survive in for nooby players, so that it actually proves challenging for mid - late game players.

Perhaps there should be a method of triggering rifts that can be found in the overworld, so that unlucky advanced players could get to the nether.

If nether portal zones underground were relatively recognizable (IE: Any 2x3x2 hollow pit surrounded by bedrock), and perhaps just a smidge more common, it could just be made so that they only rarely open. Once you've found one you'd only have to frequently check up on it.

For the record I've been imagining horizontal portals the whole time. I also think no man-made portals would be best.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

_{well when you're that transparent....}

You're a real charmer, you know that?

Any way, can we all please get this thread back on topic?

Nether ideas guys, come on, let's go

[bsb23 303]

Attempting to diffuse conversation because even though its done in this thread, I have a feeling it will continue in others.

MDub: Don't think your idea isn't appreciated it is better than the whole magic for time in the nether however it is flawed and can still be exploited eternal just pointed that out that is his job he points out mistakes to make sure we can get around them without that we might be tossing around some pretty ridiculous ideas still. He does it to everyone so don't feel to special. He's hardly trolling either nothing wrong with a little humor.

Eternal: You're going to keep make kids like that angry if you keep being so direct try something positive first so they don't feel completely insulted. For instance how about "yes magic from mobs would definitely be an improvement, however people could still make mob grinders to exploit the system" It would probably be longer than that preferably but you get my point. They don't like being the butt of jokes either regardless if they are extremely humorous or not.

Lumireaver: Don't worry I'm not going to talk to you about arguing. XP I agree is a terrible name it sends the wrong message, but the system itself is perfect for our needs, it encourages people to try everything(achievements), it forces them out of peaceful mode, and has a reward which is quite rewarding but not necessary for game advancements. I would like to ask for people to suggest a new name for this magic energy stuff besides experience (do not say mana, I know one of you were thinking it don't say it)

[Lumireaver 101]

Lumireaver: Don't worry I'm not going to talk to you about arguing. XP I agree is a terrible name it sends the wrong message, but the system itself is perfect for our needs, it encourages people to try everything(achievements), it forces them out of peaceful mode, and has a reward which is quite rewarding but not necessary for game advancements. I would like to ask for people to suggest a new name for this magic energy stuff besides experience (do not say mana, I know one of you were thinking it don't say it)

For some reason, even knowing the context, I saw XP as an emoticon. Yeah, that was odd.

...Anyway, firstly, how does XP encourage achievements? They're two completely unrelated mechanics.

Also, how can ordinary Steve holds onto an intangible magical energy value without wearing a robe and wizard hat or being a Super Saiyan?

We can charge players in other, more grounded ways. Like afflicting them with a fatigue status effect, or something.