Kingdoms Brainstorming

[Jed1314 420]

-Snip-

Yay ! Economics ! .. Can I play ?

I'm afraid it is not the US alone, it is almost all western nations.

Most of what you said is very true. I would probably argue that America also benefited from the war in that they actually produced a lot of the kit that was used throughout. The fact that the US was fighting the war far from home soil meant that there was little of the destruction caused by bombing etc. that there was elsewhere. This stacked with the fact that the US still reaped many of the rewards which the war bore by joining in Europe. Access to fairly advanced Nazi technology (without which the moon landing would never have happened when it did) combined with the rise of mass production (a technique which was only just reaching out of adolescence pre the war, but was developed speedily during to increase the volumes producible in a space of time. Standardization was pioneered by Henry Ford and was also dragged into the mainstream by the events of WW2.

After the war, many nations who had bought equipment etc. off of America were left indebted to them (both financially and in terms of an attitude of "we owe them, they saved our asses" (which is debatable)). The UK once had something of an empire, which was slowly let go in order to pay these debts.

Post the war, the economy developed quickly. Once rationing had ended, people were once again opened up to the excess of the western world. Suddenly you weren't limited in what you could buy. This prompted a change in banking culture. Once, you had to have an interview with the branch manager of a bank to take out a mortgage, and even then you were lucky to get one. The banks, seeing the potential for making money from the less wealthy with longer term mortgages, effectively locking them into a life of debt, began lending more freely. As we progressed into the early 70's there was a huge shift in economic priorities. The rising quality of living and levels of education in the west led to an increasing feeling of entitlement and aloofness in the general populace. Menial labour jobs and manufacture positions became increasingly stigmatized, the sign of an uneducated or lower class background to many. Coinciding with this, countries such as China, Brazil and many other nations began to emerge from their own assorted internal struggles. In the late 70's, the PRC was finally recognized as the official government of China and they began to open the doors to their nation (and huge, cheap, exploitable labour force) to western investors who began to move their labour sources away from the west, where workers were less efficient, with greater protection from exploitation and far higher wage prices. This is what sparked the exodus of manufacture from the west.

Eastern nations began to embrace the principles of efficiency and "just in time" manufacture far earlier than the now shrinking western manufacture sectors (who were stuck in the old ways and were bogged down by inefficient practice and high labour costs). This prompted a huge increase in the availability of almost all goods, and at lower prices. This sparked a frenzy of consumption amongst the populace. These "baby boomers" had grown up with the austerity of war and now were faced with a huge range of choice and many new technologies, such as gaming systems, colour televisions, microwaves and more.

Soon, consumer expenditure was holding the economy afloat almost by itself. The focus of western economies shifted from the old way of making goods to the modern primarily service based economies we have today. Banks began making large sums of money from investment banking, the market for stock trading was increasingly de-regulated (leading to higher and higher profit margins as investment banks risked all and seemingly won).

The late 70's - early 90's was the golden age of the city. Banks and other service firms were generating huge sums of money for the governments of the world and, almost as a reward, the governments further loosened the restriction which bound these firms. However, slowly at first, cracks began to appear. The .com bubble of the late 90's finally burst in the early 2000's. Thousands of investors (many of whom were regular consumers as investment in stocks had spread to even the general public) lost their money practically overnight. Speculation had devastated the economy (a pattern we have seen repeat in the more recent depression of 2007 onwards).

Many countries only avoided recession in the early 2000's through massive consumer expenditure from debt. This continued the illusion of the "golden age". The chancellor exchequer of the Uk at the time (Gordon Brown) even foolishly declared this period "The end of boom and bust". Sadly, he was wrong. As we entered the latter half of the 2000's, the biggest bubble in history perhaps (the housing bubble, based on the foolish assumption that the price of houses would rise forever, thus ensuring the security of the banks assets) burst. The banks had lent money to people who couldn't afford the repayments, or could barely afford them. An increase in interest rates in 2006 forced many of these people into bankruptcy. By the time the banks had repossessed these peoples houses, the prices had fallen, meaning the banks couldn't reclaim all of the money they had lent. This was especially pertinent for the fabled 110%+ mortgages, which were particularly sore for these organisations.

All of this would have been bad by itself, but the true implications of these events would be revealed with the collapse of the Lehman Brothers. Many investment firms had been "trading" these peoples debts. The banks who had originally lent the money no longer received the repayments. Instead, investment firms had "sold" this debt to investors, packaging the bad debt with the good.

These practices meant that the impact of the crisis was felt far beyond the city. Many other companies (and even nations) had invested in these trades. The collapse harmed these companies, leading to redundancies. The collapse also harmed market confidence, leading to lower expenditure and far fewer loans. Suddenly (like a hangover staved off with more alcohol) the consequences hit us all at once. The growth which we had achieved through the expenditure of debt began to reverse. More and more companies went under, leading to higher unemployment and lower confidence which reduced expenditure shutting down more firms in a vicious and relentless cycle.

This is where we come into the present. With a legacy of debt and irresponsible expenditure, combined with a hereditary culture of excess and a dependence on cheap labour to continue our lifestyles, our generation, and that of our parents, have been left to clean up the mess. Unfortunately, it is not as simple as "stop sending money".

Reversing such a deep recession is a case of carefully managing expenditure and balancing that with increased taxes and reduced interest rates. We need to spend money to encourage growth in the economy, but we are spending money which is borrowed. We can't see the patterns repeating themselves once again. Despite our banging headache, we are opening our next bottle of vodka.

I, personally, feel that our floundering attempts at recovery are misguided. We have been living a lie for many, many years. For some reason, we have spent our entire lives aiming to have economic growth. Tell me, what happens when you put something that expands into a limited space ? It has to stop growing eventually. Our world is essentially a slowly expanding enclosed space. Many of our resources (e.g. Land, Labour) are limited. I feel it is totally ridiculous to continue chasing economic growth. It is futile. Instead, we should focus on consolidating the growth we have now and ensuring that any growth we have in the future is sustainable, actual growth and not false growth, fuelled by debt and irresponsible behaviour

... Well that was long

[Ryuugumo 88]

-snip-

Agreed. Our leaders worldwide have been trying to stop it from crashing; however, anyone who has studied economics could tell you that you must have a 1:1 ratio of ups/downs. We have been in one gaint up for soo long anyone with half-a-brain could see this 2nd great depression coming from a mile away. I have only two questions for our nations leaders: Did you really think growth could go on forever? Why not let go of the situation and let it hit bottom so the economy can reset? Yes, this would mean that countries that owe money will be attacked by countries that loaned money; however, when the dust finally settles we'll only be left with war expenses and not this huge pile of bull shit that our "trusted" leaders have shoved on us.

[Ryuugumo 88]

any plan to nomads villagers (hunters, etc)? or will need too much chunks to run good?

I like the idea but some servers have problems with two people being on and more than 1k blocks away from each other. I don't see how this would be possible for those servers. (Yes my computer is that bad. At least it doesn't need Optifine to run )

[Peffern 94]

I would like it if they actually did playerly things like in Millenaire, not the stupid testificates.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Agreed. Our leaders worldwide have been trying to stop it from crashing; however, anyone who has studied economics could tell you that you must have a 1:1 ratio of ups/downs. We have been in one gaint up for soo long anyone with half-a-brain could see this 2nd great depression coming from a mile away. I have only two questions for our nations leaders: Did you really think growth could go on forever? Why not let go of the situation and let it hit bottom so the economy can reset? Yes, this would mean that countries that owe money will be attacked by countries that loaned money; however, when the dust finally settles we'll only be left with war expenses and not this huge pile of bull shit that our "trusted" leaders have shoved on us.

war expenses and casualties*

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

How would paying for things i.e. Obamacare get us out of debt? Agree with the rest though.

Edit: Try to get JAG. I think he is saying "Are there any plans to add nomadic villager NPCs? Or will this take up too much memory?" However I could have guessed the word chunks wrong.

I wasn't saying Obamacare would get you out of debt, but it would allow you to get sufficient health care when you need it. I think I was grouping it under "improve quality of life without more government spending" or something

[Ryuugumo 88]

I wasn't saying Obamacare would get you out of debt, but it would allow you to get sufficient health care when you need it. I think I was grouping it under "improve quality of life without more government spending" or something

Funny thing is we already have good health care. Just go to the doctor and either say that you're an illegal alien to get it for free or let them know you don't have insurance and recieve a discounted bill in the mail later.

Also it was going to cost the government 716 billion dollars that they don't have.

[Kregeron 2]

Bioxx, I have a couple ideas that would go well with Kingdoms. 1) capes or tabards to identify different towns on servers that do not affect stats. 2) Rudimentary seige weapons, like rams, that can take out huge sections of wall, but do so over a decently long amount of time and are rather hard to make in that they require several complex parts and are not very fast moving to balance things out. 3)Professions of some description to encourage trading. maybe sine peice of statless gear that identifies a smith from a miner from a regular citizen from a farmer from a noble from a rancher and so on.

[Ryuugumo 88]

Bioxx, I have a couple ideas that would go well with Kingdoms. 1) capes or tabards to identify different towns on servers that do not affect stats. 2) Rudimentary seige weapons, like rams, that can take out huge sections of wall, but do so over a decently long amount of time and are rather hard to make in that they require several complex parts and are not very fast moving to balance things out. 3)Professions of some description to encourage trading. maybe sine peice of statless gear that identifies a smith from a miner from a regular citizen from a farmer from a noble from a rancher and so on.

1. cool

2. ...

3. You mean like equippable clothes that look different professions I.E. blacksmiths apron, sooty mining clothes, fine clothes, ... ? If so that would be cool.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Funny thing is we already have good health care. Just go to the doctor and either say that you're an illegal alien to get it for free or let them know you don't have insurance and recieve a discounted bill in the mail later.

Also it was going to cost the government 716 billion dollars that they don't have.

716... seems a little big. oh well.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Bioxx, I have a couple ideas that would go well with Kingdoms. 1) capes or tabards to identify different towns on servers that do not affect stats. 2) Rudimentary seige weapons, like rams, that can take out huge sections of wall, but do so over a decently long amount of time and are rather hard to make in that they require several complex parts and are not very fast moving to balance things out. 3)Professions of some description to encourage trading. maybe sine peice of statless gear that identifies a smith from a miner from a regular citizen from a farmer from a noble from a rancher and so on.

Capes at least are really easy and totally doable. Do you guys want to craft and equip your own cloaks?

As for the second one. No, flat out.

Thirdly, we like things to be a bit more organic. This isn't an RPG.

I'm not Bioxx, but I'm probably the next best thing you'll get around here.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Capes at least are really easy and totally doable. Do you guys want to craft and equip your own cloaks?

As for the second one. No, flat out.

Thirdly, we like things to be a bit more organic. This isn't an RPG.

I'm not Bioxx, but I'm probably the next best thing you'll get around here.

Ummm... I'm not 100% on the idea of cloaks, unless they take up an armor inventory slot or something

Doing them like Mojang does kinda takes away from the 'special'ness of actually getting a cape from mojang

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Ummm... I'm not 100% on the idea of cloaks, unless they take up an armor inventory slot or something

Doing them like Mojang does kinda takes away from the 'special'ness of actually getting a cape from mojang

They would be like mojang's cape/cloaks, but they wouldn't be able to have any sort of special symbol on them. They would probably get their own armour slot and would probably be crafted from wool or furs.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

They would be like mojang's cape/cloaks, but they wouldn't be able to have any sort of special symbol on them. They would probably get their own armour slot and would probably be crafted from wool or furs.

It's like the difference between a photo of a celebrity and an autographed photo of a celebrity or something.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

They would probably get their own armour slot

then +1

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

also, sorry for double posting guys

forgive me.

[GismoT 50]

i dont like politics

why spoil the forums with it?

[Jed1314 420]

They would be like mojang's cape/cloaks, but they wouldn't be able to have any sort of special symbol on them. They would probably get their own armour slot and would probably be crafted from wool or furs.

Could you make them dyable ? If so, +1 !

We need dyable cloaks on my server pretty bad ¬.¬

[Ryuugumo 88]

Capes at least are really easy and totally doable. Do you guys want to craft and equip your own cloaks?

Yes! Capes are awesome! Wait, ... craftable and equippable? Wow, dude you have made my day!

[GismoT 50]

they should also have buffs and boni, like sneak plus for hunting, or warmth in winter btw BRACE YOURSELF winter is coming

[achartran 465]

I like cloaks/capes particularly if they are dyable. Also maybe there could be a set of say 6 generic emblems that could optionally be put on for further customization. oh, never mind dunk already sunk the idea of emblems.

[Scooterdanny 285]

No buffs on them, they should be purely aesthetic, except perhaps temperature mediation. but i like the capes idea.

[Peffern 94]

Need dying for team servers and such.

[renadi 258]

You shouldn't really have to add much in the way of politics. Those will occur naturally.

What really needs to happen is fixing the biome generation so that each one is unique enough that you have to set up different towns; where trade becomes a necessity. Almost. You should be able to survive anywhere, but to advance you would need to have some people find better resources elsewhere.

Some people find a good source of wood (make it so that in some biomes, such as mountains, trees rarely-never grow), some people to find different ores (and likewise biomes good for agriculture, such as plains, would be difficult to find any decent amount ore in). Of course you could be able to get lucky and find something with nearly everything, but if it's balanced right there should always be something that you can do easier or better by either trading for it or exploring to find your own source.

Also a proper way to transport large amounts of goods, such as ships or wagons.

I wrote a nice reply and then pressed the back button on my mouse, so this won't be exactly what I wanted to say.

This is what we really need, these systems don't get formed just because, they're formed by competition, real competition, competition of survival, and prosperity.

I'm against any universal protections, if we have an area of invulnerability I think it must have external nodes or weak points that can be attacked to bring it down.

I also think if you end up going with requiring mortar/nails walls should be made much stronger and require siege equipment to destroy, ideally also having persistent damage because as is siege equipment would either work and destroy a wall or do nothing.

I think there should also be weathering of buildings to give another reason to turn to the city to help, either having city walls would reduce this affect magically or even just having the rest of the city to fall back on were repairs necessary.

All in all you seem to understand, make a sandbox for the players, give them rules but allow them to do whatever they want within the rules, don't require 1 type of political system, don't require one way to build a town.

[Peffern 94]

I wrote a nice reply and then pressed the back button on my mouse, so this won't be exactly what I wanted to say.

This is what we really need, these systems don't get formed just because, they're formed by competition, real competition, competition of survival, and prosperity.

I'm against any universal protections, if we have an area of invulnerability I think it must have external nodes or weak points that can be attacked to bring it down.

I also think if you end up going with requiring mortar/nails walls should be made much stronger and require siege equipment to destroy, ideally also having persistent damage because as is siege equipment would either work and destroy a wall or do nothing.

I think there should also be weathering of buildings to give another reason to turn to the city to help, either having city walls would reduce this affect magically or even just having the rest of the city to fall back on were repairs necessary.

All in all you seem to understand, make a sandbox for the players, give them rules but allow them to do whatever they want within the rules, don't require 1 type of political system, don't require one way to build a town.

Exactly. While I'm not a stickler for this, this has been suggested several times in this thread by many people. I hate to say it, but read the whole thing before posting.